My preferred candidate is Obama but if he doesn’t win I will probably and vote for Hillary (I will probably have to hold my nose a little bit). I could conceivably vote for McCain over Hillary if McCain gets the Republican nomination.
Did the SC debate change anyone’s answer to the question? If you’re a Democrat and your candidate loses, are you more likely to sit this one out after watching that debate?
I support Obama. Up until that debate HRC though had been slowly getting me to dislike her less and less. I was getting to a point where I could see voting for her in the general if she was the candidate, maybe even promoting her over some of the options. Now that has changed.
The Clintons have been explicitly telling out and out lies about Obama. They are trying to Swiftboat him and not even bothering with the intermediaries to do it.
I am tired of the Rovian era. I now couldn’t vote for her. My nose doesn’t hold that tight.
As the Democratic fight continues (and short of a surprising victory for HRC in SC it will and past 2/5) it will get uglier. The Clintons are both on record as saying they love this kind of fight, that this is the fun stuff. But it will only make a Pubbie victory more likely.
I would still vote for Hillary if Obama lost because I agree with most of her ideas and I think she’s better than any of the Republican offerings.
I’m surprised that so many are willing to put McCain in over Hillary should Obama lose. McCain is pretty damn conservative. Was war-rattling with the best of them. Healthcare reform will never happen under him.
The nominee with a “D” after their name gets my vote. Period.
But McCain is unlikely to seek a second term. Four years of McCain plus eight years of Obama beats eight years of Hillary.
Unlikely to seek a second term? Is that a realistic assessment?
Should I be scrutinizing his choice of VP as the Presidential candidate in four years?
Regarding why I detest Obama, I’ve said this before in other threads, but I consider him all talk. His supporters tend to get hypnotized by his speaking and turn off the part of the brain doing critical thinking. Looking at his issues page, it’s filled with obvious idealism with a side order of pleasant sounding buzzwords. But it’s missing any sort of fresh thinking or actionable plans.
I like Hillary because she knows how to play the game. Some will interpret this as “conniving”. I *like *conniving. I would like Obama more if he were to act more like a “brother” around urban black voters instead of being the straight-laced Harvard-educated black man all the time. Because I like people who are always thinking, always coming up with angles.
What frontrunner’s issues page is any better?
Even at the expense of honesty?
Obama “acting black” would be a clown, and justly derided as one. Everyone knows his only connection to African-American culture is by marriage.
I’ll vote Edwards in the primary, but I’ll be very happy to vote for any of the leading Democratic candidates.
I agree with you, in that I cannot fathom how anyone would want to vote for Clinton or Obama first, and then 9ui11iani or McCain second. What principles are you basing your votes on? Voting for personalities seems like such a bad idea to me. Why wouldn’t you vote based on what you think is best for the country and who is likely to enact policy closest to what you think is best? As far as I can see, there is very little difference between Obama and Clinton, so I don’t even understand the “holding the nose” bit for one or the other.
You’re not picking a date, or a lunch partner, or a roommate, or a cross-country ride share, or a BFF, or the dreaded “someone to have a beer with.”
If Clinton wins, I’ll be voting against her. The Democrats seem to think that they’re going to be welcomed into office by a teary-eyed and grateful public no matter who they choose to nominate, but that’s just not true. Nominating Hillary (the most disliked candidate in the country according to any poll that measures “the most disliked”) is just arrogant, and I’ll be happy to do my part to make the Dems realize that if they get to power, it won’t be because of some inevitable mandate, but because I permitted it.
So, you will decide how to cast your vote in a fit of pique? Doesn’t seem like a really good way to choose who you want your leader to be, but IIRC, you’ve voted for Bush in the past, so there’s that.
I’m not sure where this idea comes from (well, I have a hunch…) but here is an example of what Obama accomplished in Illinois:
In the US Senate I know he led the effort on the Office of Public Integrity and the searchable online database of government spending. He also led the McCain on a global warming initiative that was defeated. Finally, he cosponsored the SCHIP renewal bill that is up for a veto override vote today.
Campaign websites are always full of pablum - the meat is in the policy documents. Many newspapers have critiqued the specific proposals. In particular the Washington Post today gave his economic stimulus package the highest grade of any candidate’s (A-).
Finally, the notion that you would like Obama more if he would “act black” indicates a love of pandering that makes me think you are a better fit as a Romney supporter… he would certainly “act black” if he thought it would get him elected.
And he’d do it better than Obama, too! 
How do you know this?
Wow… I like Hillary as well but I honestly don’t get where you’re coming from. First, I do see Barack echoing the Black ministerial tradition on the stump, especially in the South. I don’t think it’s contrived; he has learned that rhetorical skill, and the proof is how he comes across as authentic. Having been around my fair share of Black ministers, I guess I’m less in awe of his skill here, but if anyone has heard an excellent Black minister give a sermon - like Jesse Jackson (before you throw your hate-filled invectives about the man, Dopers, I suggest you go into a house of worship and hear the man preach in person) - the whole point is to make you feel transformed.
He definitely went there in the debate Monday with his “can Bill dance” comment. He could only pull that off in a room with lots of Black folks. In fact, I think Obama has made what some considered to be a liability - “not being Black enough” - a strength. I went to Harvard and there are a good number of Black students who are of African and West Indian parentage, and there has always been an underlying tension between Harvard’s penchant to seek out students in this demographic, while “native” African-Americans seem to be fewer and fewer over the years. He’s defused this rift successfully; I never hear people discuss him as not being African-American enough. His wife helps in that regard too.
I support Hillary but I would be terribly offended if Obama went into some kind of “brother speak” in front of Black audiences. I think it’s fair to say that all of the candidates sound a little different in front of the groups that they most closely identify with, and if one tries too hard, you’ll be ridiculed. (Remember Hillary’s “I ain’t no ways tired” quote?)
Hentor, you are right, and I have no idea why likeability and demeanor are such important factors for some in this election. I want my President to be a cold, calculating bastard when dealing with the bad guys in the world. I want him to have the kind of people skills that LBJ had. Which do not necessarily translate well to having a beer with. I thought we learned our lesson eight years ago on that one.
Speaking of Romney and Black people, have you seen this video? (Youtube link.) I have a friend who claims to be “the Whitest guy in America.” I sent him this video and told him he’s been dethroned by ol’ Willard here. Who let the dogs out? I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. (Actually, I laughed a whole lot.) As the adage goes, if you’re a stiff White guy, 'tis better to be yourself than it is to try to be down with “hip” language. (I want to send the guy a copy of American Pie with all of the scenes of Eugene Levy trying to be cool highlighted.)
Nobody knows for sure but I would be amazed to see McCain run in 2012. I think he runs to seek vindication for getting butt-stabbed in 2000 and once he has the job will tire of it quickly.
We can nominate Hillary and elect her, knowing that the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Clinton pattern will last to 2016. Or we can elect McCain and try to get it right with Obama or Richardson in 2012. I’ll tolerate a caretaker president checked by an unfriendly Congress over eight more years of the Clintons.
“him or her” to be a cold calculating bastard…
“I want him or her to have the kind of people skills that LBJ had.”
:smack:
I am assuming a Democratic Congress. HRC is free to bring up her healthcare package there. I think that anything that could actually pass both houses McCain would sign. He’d move well on global warming/energy security issues. He’d go the direction I’d like in immigration reform.
Foreign policy? no one is going to get us out of the current mess too quickly. She’s as much of a hawk as he is if not more so. He wouldn’t use force wantonly. She might. I think he’d actually get us out faster. Certainly no torture under a McCain administration.
Ethics reform? He’d push it. Her? Ha.
The only potential issue is Supreme noms, but there his hand would be forced by having to deal with that Democratic Congress. That and who he picks for VP, more significant for him given his age.
Don’t put words in my mouth. I’m voting for Obama because he’s the best candidate, and I’m voting against Clinton because if the last 8 years have proven anything to us, it’s that arrogance is among the worst possible traits for a politician to have.
I’ve shifted from “I’ll support whoever is the Democratic candidate” to “I’d seriously consider McCain or, more likely, not vote on the presidental ticket if Clinton is the nominee”.
This past week (ok, probably longer but it’s been most noticed by me in the past week), Clinton has come to personify “Politics as usual”. I can’t vote for Politics As Usual and feel good about it, no matter who Politics As Usual is running against.
McCain was the one who recently sang “Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.”
John McCain recently said:
I’m not sure we’re even talking about the same John McCains.