Any WWE fans in the audience? (Part 1)

The Game Room
2022

I’ll start my quick’n’dirty RAW review with this:

Your first point I couldn’t disagree more. It’s stupid to have Sandow do his stupid impressions, then finally get a sort of redemption story just to go back to doing stupid impressions. He’s a good wrestler who’s great on the mic, let him do his heel turn and actually do something

Your second point is right, and I’m kinda surprised he didn’t straight-up retire. Must be waiting to see if maybe there’s a chance

Your third point I couldn’t disagree with more (even more than the first point) a no-talent like Rollins? Have you been watching wrestling? Rollins is practically the only thing driving this ship and arguably one of the only reasons it’s compelling. Explain how you think he’s a “no talent” for me please

The rest of RAW:

  • Weird “match” between Reigns and Kane that was short, but ultimately sweet enough. The rematch on Thursday should be fun

  • Ms. Cups and I disagreed on Ambrose’s match. She said it was a waste, but I said that it was a way to watch Dean look strong and a cheap way to get the crowd into it by having their hometown hero squash the comic kids.

  • I like to see Tamina back. Did they say something about her tearing her ACL or something like that? I could have sworn she was just let go last year. That was a good match too between the girls

  • Neville and Cena already happened didn’t it? I swear it did, it was Neville’s like, second match, or something. Also Rusev interrupted which I tooootally didn’t see coming :rolleyes:. Remember when Rusev wouldn’t do anything without Lana’s permission, and she controlled him? Now he abuses her cuz women aren’t people

  • I didn’t see the main event because I went to sleep but I’m sure all 4 of them came out and brawled and JBL said something stupid and I hate commentary

2023

I’m constantly amazed TriPolar bothers to watch when he hates everything.

I was working on going to bed during the Tamina-Bree Bella Match. Assumed Tamina would be jobbing out, was rather surprised to see her win the match. Maybe they’ll finally do something worthwhile with her?

Did not see this part of last night, but so far they have completely fucked up all the momentum and good will Sandow had by having him mock everyone (a heel/bully move) and then putting him back into impersonations. They should have kept his face momentum going by having him be a good guy on a winning streak.

2024

For that matter, I almost didn’t notice at first, but El Hijo del Fantasma, on the Mexico team, is King Cuerno! With the exception of the Japanese teams, every single team on the card has at least one person who’s appeared in LU.

If Striker and Vampiro are going to be calling it in English, I’m definitely checking it out.

2025

I hated this less than most Raws. I’ve been watching wrestling for over 50 years now, this is one of several low water marks in the art.

2026

He’s talented but still unpolished. He was treated badly initially but he’s demonstrated that he has entertainment value. He just needs time to develop so he can handle longer matches and combine that acting ability with his physical abilities to become a main eventer. He was on the verge of being dropped but now he’ll have the time to develop. He started as a heel and that wasn’t working very well, he has to keep on going as a face for a while until the heel turn can be a real storyline.

There’s a chance. It will be very tough for him, he’s a small guy and his success was due to his all out reckless style. He may never be able to do that again, but I’m hoping at the right time he can get one more push and get another day in the sun. Unfortunately I don’t think he can ever have the championship role he was destined for.

Rollins is physically gifted, and that’s it. He’s brought nothing but cheap heat. He’s oblivious to the audience during a match, he has no sense of timing, and he can’t tell a story in the ring. Every wrestler he faces has to carry the match until the over-scripted conclusion where they lay down for him. He’s not fit to shine Orton’s shoes, and as I said I’m not much of an Orton fan (for his character in particular, not his ability which recently has only been matched by Daniel Bryan).

A couple of other notes, what the hell are Ass-end-shun still doing there?

Caesaro is another underused talent. He seems to me to be the inheritor of the great athletic style of the late great Verne Gagne. I hope they can find a way to tune his character and give him real matches.

2027

I’m also a Seth Rollins mark. I don’t like the way they have J&J&Kane come to his rescue, but I think the guy’s immensely talented. He’s as agile as a gymnast. I like the way he counters the “sacred cow” signature moves, like when he flips out of Cena’s AA before the slam. I like the way he taunts his opponents while he’s got the advantage, and acts like the entitled prick who leaves his stooges to suffer the consequences of his actions. Sure, whiny heels are annoying, but they’re supposed to be.

I think he’s going to have a similar career to Shawn Michaels. SM had a similar gimmick when he broke loose from the Rockers and and started his solo career as a heel lothario. I can see SR eventually turning face and taking abuse from monster heels. He’s got the rock star look, a body like a Greek god, and the physical talent to keep his career going for decades.

2028

If Rollins can get over with the fans with anything other than his whining obnoxious jeering I’ll change my mind. Countering signature moves is fine, but once they land he no-sells them, I’m tired of that bullshit all around. Ambrose was the talented member of the Shield, without him they wouldn’t have lasted. WWE bet on the wrong man.

2029

It really seemed like Ambrose was the one who was going to get the big singles push at first when they put the US title on him and he worked some amazing matches with Punk and Bryan. I really hope he does get a world title run at some point - he’s a great technician, and if Bryan is on the way out he could easily fill that space on the roster as the little guy who wins by using his brain.

2030

But he’s CraAaaaaAaAaaAaZZzzzzy!!! (sigh) And if there is one thing Dean has not been using lately, it’s his brain.

2031

How is anyone saying is the only heat he’s getting cheap heat? It seems like any heat given by the fans is automatically cheap heat vs genuine heat.

Cheap heat is when Barrett comes out and says that Washington has a racist football team, or when Big Show says something about the audience not having jobs…that’s cheap heat. “Boo he said something bad about our city boo” the name is what it is…a cheap way of getting heat

Genuine heat is that the audience dislikes the character as a person (but not to the extent of x-pac heat). People (myself included) haaaatttteee the smarmy, whiny, runs-away-but-acts-all-tough, spoiled, entitled lil bitch that Rollins is. But that’s his character, it’s who he’s supposed to be, it’s why he’s a heel and why people boo him. That’s genuine heat that a heel is getting. Other than DB he’s pretty much the only consistent heat-getter on this whole damn roster. The man gets acres of heat…but RARELY is it cheap

2032

New Day started out as an X-Pac “get this crappy gimmick off my screen” sort of heat that had nothing to do with any of the three men in it. Now they’re getting “Fun to play into it and chant New Day Sucks” heat, which is what you want.

2033

Chimera mentions X-Pac heat. I’m trying to remember why he was so reviled. His Bronco Buster was the gayest move in wrestling for sure, but he had outstanding ring talent. He’s had his share of legal entanglements, but he’s also been treated like crap by both WWE & WCW. I’ve watched a couple of his podcasts, and he’s pretty well-mannered and straightforward. I guess he just kind of exudes that obnoxious punk aura.

2034

Completely off topic

Someone brought a puppy to work and it’s hilarious to watch everyone freak out…me included.

You can tell it’s a puppy and not a baby cuz the crowd is huge

2035

I think a good part of it was that he was the smaller, more obnoxious member of a clique. You know, the small loud mouth entitled asshole who is friends with the pack of bullying athletes in high school. Everyone wants to kick his ass, everyone asks why he is in the position he’s in, and everyone knows it is entirely because of his bigger, more talented and more connected friends.

Whether any of that is true is inconsequential, he was just the guy in that position and everyone knew that asshole in high school.

2036

Hmm, looking over some of the latest reports and reflecting on the last couple of NXTs, I’m betting either Emma will ask for her release, or she’ll be cut in the next round.

2037

Looking over the latest reports? Meaning she’s losing a shit-ton in the future?

Also what does everyone think about Elimination Chamber being a one-off? Fun? Bad? Is it going to be for the IC? Who’s going to be in it?

2038

If I may quote the TvTropes article on the topic;

[QUOTE=TvTropes]
was part of the New World Order and D-Generation X stables in the late 1990s and early 2000s, and was actually a popular performer during this time. Several years and a heel turn later, DX was long since over and X-Pac hadn’t evolved his persona in any significant way. Despite not getting pushed or doing much of anything, he was still booked on just about every show, winning a disproportionate amount of matches against opponents who were often more interesting than he was…

Both the X-Pac persona and Waltman himself, due to his membership in The Kliq, soon became really grating, as he gyrated and gestured around and acted like a petulant little tool, making the crowds, who were supposed to find him rotten, hate him on a personal level instead of a kayfabe one. The vicious combination of declining performance due to years of injuries, a stale personality (to put it mildly), and a reputation for attaching himself to a hot act, losing to them, but then squashing them cleanly with a rematch to ensure he captured more attention, caused wrestling fans to start chanting “X-Pac sucks”.

Unfortunately for those who were sick of X-Pac, “[Wrestler’s name] sucks” chants are frequently the result of regular heel heat (i.e. “Rocky Sucks”), so X-Pac’s push continued, to the point where he received his own stable (X-Factor) comprised of himself and the similarly-hated Justin Credible and Albert. The hatred for X-Pac eventually reached a point where fans would chant “X-Pac sucks” when there was nothing else to chant, even when Waltman wasn’t booked on the show. In the end, Waltman ended his tenure with the company with an awful reputation amongst fans and wrestlers.
[/QUOTE]

Basically, X-Pac came along at a time when the nature of wrestling fandom was changing - adult viewers no longer believed the fighting was real, and people were learning more about the backstage politics of the business thanks to the internet. There was a perception that X-Pac was being pushed harder than he ought to be because he was friends with the Kliq, and management responded to the boos by pushing him even harder because they were too slow to pick up on the difference between “You are an effective heel” boos and “We dislike you as a performer and want you to go away” boos.

They’re doing Elimination Chamber on surprisingly short notice - the event was being promoted and ticketed as a house show up until Monday night, and they had another house show booked opposite it in South Carolina (which they’ve since cancelled). I kind of get the feeling that they’re pretty much phoning Payback in at this point and they’re hoping for EC to be their saving throw to win the subscriptions of people who’re on the free trial. (I’ll get to that in a little bit when I post the Takeover edition of Smapti’s Always-Absolutely-Right-Every-Single-Time* PPV Predictions.)

So far, they’ve announced that the IC and tag titles will both be on the line in the Chamber, and that there’ll be standard singles matches for the world title and US title. Who’s in the running obviously depends on how Payback turns out.

*if it happened more than three weeks ago it no longer counts as canon

2039

I’m thinking Vince is really losing it when he’s throwing out a King of the Ring on zero notice and now an Elimination Chamber thing.

What’s next?

“I know! We’ll do a Wrestlemania house show tomorrow night in (town name)! Get Hogan on the line, we’ll have him wrestle Warrior for the title!”
“Vince, Warrior is dead”
“Nah, we just have to refresh his gimmick and he’ll get over again!”
“No, Vince, WARRIOR IS DEAD. And Hogan can’t wrestle anymore.”
“Nonsense! He’s the top guy in the world!”

2040

If I may invoke the Vince-as-Mr.-Burns character again;

Vince: “We’ll put on a supercard for the ages at Payback! Lou Thesz! Andre the Giant! Macho Man Randy Savage! Georg Hackenschmidt!”

Hunter: “Sir, I’m afraid everyone on your card has long since retired and passed away. In fact, your new Intercontinental Champion has been dead for over a hundred years.”

Vince: “Fine. Get me some good wrestlers! LIVING wrestlers! Scour the indie leagues! The developmental leagues! The Negro leagues! But first, for the pre-show match, get me the Mega Powers and the Legion of Doom!”

Hunter: “I’m afraid they’re unavailable.”

Vince: “Then get me their non-union millennial equivalent!”

2041

Alright. So, Payback. I’ve mentioned before that I don’t like when there’s only three weeks between PPVs - it’s not nearly enough time to set up enough storylines to fill a card, and the result is usually that you just get a whole bunch of rematches and unannounced Fandango matches of no consequence. (Of course, they’re only really giving themselves two weeks to build Elimination Chamber, but color me cautiously optimistic on that one.)

We’ve got a grand total of eight matches announced for Payback, including the pre-show match, and four of them are rematches from Extreme Rules. Here’s my predictions.

  • Seth Rollins vs. Roman Reigns, Dean Ambrose, and Randy Orton for the world title, Kane is “fired” if Rollins loses. It’s pretty much 100% certain that Rollins is retaining here - this isn’t the kind of match that the world title changes hands in, and out of the three challengers, Orton doesn’t need a title run right now, Reigns is still in the middle of being rebuilt after his failed WrestleMania push, and Ambrose needs more of a push to be credible as a world champion candidate. The big question is what they’re going to do with the Shield here. There’s been a lot of speculation that Ambrose is heavily favored for a push, and that this match might lead to the Shield reuniting. I hope it’s not via Reigns/Ambrose turning heel on Orton - the Shield as the Authority’s goon squad has already been done and would be a step backward.

If I were running things, I’d have Kane come out at the climax of the match, when Orton has Rollins on his back, and send out Noble and Mercury - and have them attack Rollins, because Kane is Kane and he’s so sick of the Authority’s bullshit that he’d rather lose his job than put up with that whiny bitch Seth one more minute, and that leads to Reigns and Ambrose taking out J&J and allowing Rollins to get the pin, thus leading to an uneasily reformed Shield where Reigns and Ambrose see Rollins as an ally but don’t necessarily trust him, and potentially setting up for a triple-threat title match down the road.

  • John Cena vs. Rusev, I Quit match for the US title. CENAWINSLOL. They couldn’t make it more obvious if they tried. The instant they said this was going to be an I Quit match, you knew Cena was going to win. Cena doesn’t quit. Cena NEVER quits. That’s his catch-phrase - “NEVER GIVE UP”. Cena has never lost a match by submission in his career (the exception with an asterisk on it being Fast Lane, which was really more of a TKO than a submission) - he sure as hell isn’t going to say “I quit” into a microphone. Either he straight-up gets Rusev to quit, or Lana quits on her behalf setting up her inevitable face turn.

  • New Day vs. The Cesaro Kids (I’m going to get that name to catch on if it kills me), best of three falls for the tag titles. My money’s on New Day to retain here - they’ve somehow finagled their way into being so bad at being babyfaces that they’ve become good at being heels who pretend to be babyfaces, and in so doing they’ve managed to do what WWE has been refusing to do for nigh on three years now and turn Cesaro face in the process. This’ll probably be a good match, but in the end it ought to just be a space-filler until the tag titles match at EC (for that matter, has there ever been a tag team match in the Chamber before, and how would that even work - is it a three-way tornado elimination match, or will they actually put an entire team in each pod?)

  • Neville vs. King Barrett. It’s kind of bizarre that they gave Wade Barrett a gimmick that was entirely focused around cheap heat, and then ended up taking it away from him because going for cheap heat was actually getting him over. I’m not really feeling the “king” gimmick on him - has there really been anyone since the Macho King that that gimmick really helped? - but he and Neville have worked some good matches so far, and I expect this one to be good as well. I say Neville wins this one, because Barrett is a glorified jobber and it’s not like he actually has a title to defend right now which would obligate him to win at least one match a month.

  • Dolph Ziggler vs. Sheamus. I don’t have much to say about this match - it’s just a continuation of the whole ass-kissing gimmick that nobody except Vince thinks is funny. Dolph wins because Sheamus won last time.

  • Bray Wyatt vs. Ryback. It seems like WWE has only one story arc for Bray that they keep repeating over and over again - he starts interfering in a random babyface’s matches for no reason, cuts a bunch of rambling promos that don’t mean anything and could really just consist of him saying “OOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY” for five minutes straight, they trade wins for a few months, and then he gets bored and picks someone new to mess with. They seriously need to either reunite him with Harper and Rowan or have him start building a new Family so that he isn’t just treading water constantly. Ryback would actually be a good convert for a New Wyatt Family - as much as he talks about how reading The Secret changed his life, I could easily see him falling for Wyatt’s nonsense and deciding to follow him. Whether this is going anywhere or not, I give Bray the win here.

  • Damien Macho Man-Dow and #Axelmania vs. the Ascension in the pre-show match. As I joked above, I’m not entirely certain that this match isn’t happening because Vince demanded that the Mega Powers fight the Legion of Doom and he was told this was the closest they could find. It’s hard to pick a winner here because honestly everyone involved in this match needs a push right now. Sandow and Axel both should be higher on the card than they are, but they’ve been booked like dorks for nearly two years now - Axel’s heel push upon his repackaging was fumbled from the moment they introduced him and put the wrong name on the Titantron, and Sandow has just kind of been treading water in this impersonation gimmick ever since they put MITB on him with no plan and then had him job it to Cena. On the other hand, you have the Ascension, who were utterly amazing in NXT and should be in contention for the tag titles right now, but instead have been jobbed out to everyone and their mother since getting called up.

If I were booking this, I’d have Axel and Sandow riff on the Mega Powers’ mid-match breakup back in '88 (not really sure who’d play the part of Miss Elizabeth, though) and have the Ascension pick up the win.

There’s only seven main card matches, so there’s definitely the possibility of an unannounced match appearing on the show. Since there aren’t any Divas matches scheduled, it’ll probably be one of those - let’s say Nikki Bella vs. Tamina Snuka, since Tamina seems to be getting spotlighted again at the moment. Nikki retains because I don’t see her dropping the title to anyone besides Brie or Charlotte.