So these guys have hinted that they have “the bomb”, and have certainly hinted that they are willing to use it if we (particularly the US) don’t do what they ask. Do they really mean to start WWIII if they’re not happy?
They have certainly laid down the rules; any economic sanctions would be considered an act of war, any negative change to their international aid would be considered and act of war. What do we do?
My question is how will the world deal with this new sort of national terrorist/extortionist? “Hey, we’ve got the bomb and we’re willing to use it, so fork over your lunch money or else”.
i am moderately frightened by them, i have no idea what they’ll do. They can also bomb south Korea & Japan as well as the US.
I don’t know. It sounds like a comic book evil villian plot, holding the world hostage for money.
Personally, i’d just give into blackmail until the Us can develop a working anti missile shield. But i know both Japan’s & the US’s governments chose not to succumb to blackmail.
Nor Korea is the real threat. Seoul is within shelling distance and there are thousands of conventional artillery aimed at Seoul. Plus they have nukes or could easily have nukes. Plus, on the edge of starvation and the most isolated state in the world. China and Russia don’t have a huge amount of leverage. Nor Korea could spark an arms race with Japan, that then leads Asia to go militaristic.
Of course it is a big freakin’ problem, and of the axis of evil, then one that should really be engaged.
Please keep in mind that they are also masters of brinkmanship. The economic sanctions as an act of war stuff. Not the first time we’ve heard this coming out of norkorea.
But I sure as hell wish Bush and the rest of the admin would look at this very real threat and engage more than they have thus far.
The missiles Korea has that can allegedly reach the US are, I think, untested. Not that I want to find out; I’m just saying. North Korea may have one or two nuclear weapons right now, if they get the reactors going, they could increase that number of course.
It’s almost reassuring that this has happened before, but not really.
There’s nothing in it for Kim if he attacks the United States. He couldn’t destroy it, or its military capability. He couldn’t even come close. And he’d be nuked for sure if he did. He wants security and aid, I think.
The biggest problem might be this: he’s totally unscrupulous. There’s probably a possibility that he would sell weapons or nukes to terrorists - not for ideological reasons, just for the money.
I’m confused - not surprised, but confused - by the Bush administration’s reluctance to talk. This won’t go away by itself. It’s not, as they’ve termed it, “a regional problem.” They probably want to deal with other countries first.
I can’t help but think this situation would be much less tense if not for that “axis of evil” bullshit…
I’m not. They will never be in the position of thinking that they can launch an effective first strike and survive. As long as we don’t push them into too tight of a corner, it’ll just remain the weirdest country on Earth.
I’m with js_africanus on this one.
Well, for the most part. I do have a nagging voice in the back of my head that says the leadership in N Korea is just crazy enough to think that they can attack and survive. You, I, and everyone else with even a few of their marbles left knows that a nuke attack from N. Korea would result in them being turned into the world’s largest superfund site but they might just be f*&^ed in the head enough to think they wouldn’t be.
The thing is, we just don’t know how wacky they are. They have a history of being wacky. Maybe those bombs are untested. Maybe they test them on us.
And maybe one thing in our favor is that although NK has said it has the bomb and will use it if any sanctions are in place, the US is concentrating on the Middle East. Can you see NK saying, “Hey… HEY! We got the bomb over here! … hello? Anyone?”
In terms of the proliferation of WMD, North Korea are a much greater threat than Iraq ever could have been.
And while their nuclear program has recieved the most media attention, I for one believe their chemical weapons program to be perhaps even more worrying.
North Korea have, at most, three or four untested nukes.
By contrast, they have had stockpiles of thousands of tonnes of chemical agents for decades.
If they wish to sell any of these to terrorists or other states, I see no reason why they would balk at doing so, given their disregard for international opinion and their apparent involvement in the drug trade.
In the current climate, I see North Korea as by far the greatest threat to global security.
You bet they are a threat. I think they need liberating too.
Are they a threat to the US? I don’t really think so.
Will/Is the US willing to disarm any nation who uses “terrorism”
as a means to whatever end. I think it’s fairly obvious the current administration is willing to take on this challenge.
BTW he still has the majority of Americans supporting his actions.
The question in my mind is which country is willing to risk the “liberation” of their oppressed masses in order to save face.
I don’t think the North Koreans are that ignorant. The cost would be too great. They could absolutely never win in a conflict. Sure they might manage to do some damage, but win! Ha- they (the leaders) would be damned lucky to even survive.
I worry more about domestic violence and homegrown terrorists than foreign. You have a valid concern, especially since Bush will more than likely get another four years to make the world safe. AND next term he won’t have to worry about re-election. Plus he’ll be pressed do get it done before he leaves office.
How will the world deal with it, they won’t. They’ll pick sides and debate and turn a blind eye to what doesn’t directly effect them. Many will sit back and do nothing but criticize those who act. The others will bitch about nothing being done, while not actually doing anything themselves.
Anyway, I gotta go & all of the previous was IMHO.
I’m more concerned with radical/militant Islamism than North Korea. After all, Islamists have already declared war on us; North Korea hasn’t. Islamists also aren’t bound by international law (barring some Middle Eastern governments).
The problem as I see it is that they’re already in too tight of a corner. Their population is dying. And Kim Jong Il, by all accounts, is insane. I just wonder why they haven’t done it yet. They have nothing to lose. If they win, they get Seoul and all the Burger King hamburgers they can eat. If they lose, we rebuild their country, pave their roads, and help them into the 21st century.
Sure, KJ will probably be put in front of a war crimes tribunal if he loses, but the way things are up there, he’s already well on his way to doing the happy spikey head dance at the hands of his own people. The only reason he isn’t doing so yet is that he can still feed his secret police. And he probably regularly purges the military leadership so that no one’s in power long enough to learn how to say the words “What If.”
North Korea scares me. Big time. I just hope Bush isn’t ignoring the problem in favor of easier targets.
I won’t pretend to be an expert on this subject, but it seems like the Bush admin. hasn’t handled it very well. As mentioned above, the “Axis of Evil” doctrine doesn’t seem to be too helpful. On the other hand, I guess NK is gonna try to use their nuke program to extort cash from the rest of the world, most specifically SK & the U.S. It seems to be a difficult situation to balance.
Musicat, I don’t think the analogy is appropriate. First of all, Al Qaeda is doing just fine. It may not have a cushy client state to push around and half its members may be dead, but it still seems to be getting by without much trouble. Second, if you consider Israel’s impotence against Hamas, Great Britain’s against the IRA, or Sri Lanka’s against the Tamil Tigers, I’d bet dollars to doughnuts that Al Qaeda will survive for a long time to come. (Though I haven’t priced doughnuts lately, so I don’t know what kind of odds I’m giving…) Third, I think that when the U.S. turned tail and fled Somolia, along with our “don’t get Americans in firing range” policy in Serbia, we sent a pretty strong signal that our virtue didn’t match our technology/wealth/political reach/etc.
NK, on the other hand, is compact and easily identiafible, and easily targeted vis-a-vis a nuclear war. Well, at least it seems to be.
Personally, I like the stance we’re taking towards NK. We are insisting that it is not our problem, it’s the world’s problem, that discussions about it have to involve the countries NEAR it. Like, you know, China? Yeah, NK can nuke us, they can take out NYC if they choose on a slow boat ride, but… well, big deal. I lived with that threat for all my life, till the Berlin Wall came down. We’re taking it slow and easy, and keeping it contained, letting him rant and rave. I don’t think there is a better solution at the moment, considering China would be real damn pissed if we did anything.
Besides, China could use something to keep 'em busy.
Personally, I like one tidbit of information. Ol’ Kim has the hardest trouble understanding why our policies towards Korea change when we change presidents. That’s why he wanted to speak to the old ambassador.
Besides the external threats, we should have a moral imperative to intervene - we are watching a second holocaust and a nation that has widespread slave labor, and doing nothing about it.
For more information, read “The Aquariums of Pyongyang: Ten Years in the North Korean Gulag” or any account of a N. Korean defector.
IMHO, we should support Japanese or S. Korean commandos to free the hundreds of thousands of political prisoners/slaves, and let them do the rest of the work.
Well… yes, many, many, many people are dying, but I don’t think it’s directed at exterminating any one group of people. Doesn’t make it any better… but remember, if we assault… if anyone assaults… they can shell Seoul with the equivalent of what, a nuke’s worth of artillery shells every minute?
Of course we should support any moves made by our allies to deal with this issue in a subtle manner… the thing is, our special ops troops, some of the best, if not the best troops on the planet, have this amazing tendency to get caught when they do things like that. Not a slam against them, just to point out how darned difficult it is.
It’s horrible. It would be good to free them. Any thoughts on how would be welcomed. But I don’t see it happening any time soon… and it should be China leading the way.
