Well, I’m not IFR rated either - I expect one of those who are will be along presently to give us an insight and/or correction.
Well, I was flying from Madrid to New York, and as we were taking-off, the brakes suddenly went on, and we stopped. We had disembark and wait about 3 hours for them to get a new plane (I don’t remember what was wrong).
So anyway, we get to New York, and we manage to secure another connecting flight to Boston. So, as we’re taking off, I think to myself, wouldn’t it be great if the pilot hit the breaks again. And what do you know, there came the breaks. Except this time they were much harder - we were much farther down the runway. I burst out laughing, and everyone looked at me like I was crazy. Apparently this time, it was just a warning light of some sort, and we were back in the air in 20 minutes.
On the other hand, I was flying Dallas->Boston, when the pilot came on the PA 10 minutes into the flight and said there was a problem with the ‘hydraulics’, and that we would have to return to Dallas. Fine. Except we were stuck on the runway for about an hour until they could get a tow-truck to pull us back to a gate. I’m sure that pissed off airport control a bunch. I don’t know how serious this problem was, but everything went fine, so it seemed somewhat trivial. Any pilots care to elucidate?
The terms are fairly precise, but not quite razor sharp.
“Missed approach” is an IFR term. When executing an approach in clouds and you have to abandon it for any reason at any point along the path, you execute a “missed approach.” Spacing’s too tight, or gear doesn’t extend, or wind shifts out of limits, or …, all those trigger a missed approach. The typical cause is indeed getting to the end of the procedure & not seeing the runway when you have to, but that’s not the only reason.
The critical distinction is that a missed approach has a specific charted set of manuevers to fly to route you away from the ground, any hills, and other airport traffic even when everyone’s in the clouds.
OTOH, there’s not a universally standardized term for deciding not to land once you can see the runway. If I’m flying on a nice sunny afternoon and we’re flying a “visual approach” to the runway, and I have to not land, well I’ll call it either a missed approach or a go-around. Most folks at my carrier would use one or the other terms in that circumstance. There are a few other terms around the industry as well.
If the weather was OK-not-great, say 500’ ceiling, then even though we flew an instrument approach to get near the runway, we’d “break out” of the clouds in plenty of time to see to land visually. Then, if later on as we get a little closer, we find we can’t land (say somebody dawdling on the runway), I’d still call that a “go-around”, but very quickly we’d be getting back into the clouds and hence complying with the missed approach procedure, at which point the manuever is properly called a “missed approach.” Clear as mud yet?
The term “go-around” is also used in tower controller-to-pilot communication as an instruction to not land. Normally that’d be given for some unforseen event below say 500’ but above the point where touchdown is imminent. Once we’re almost down it’s a bad idea for them to rescind landing clearance for anything except an impending collision.
Finally, if you’re right in the midst of actually landing (say below 50’) & change your mind, then a new set of terms come in. My carrier’s official term is “rejected landing”. Another common term (Navy I believe) is “balked landing.” I can’t now recall the offical USAF term they taught me eons ago.
Those can be pretty aggressive affairs. If you’re that close to the ground and things are suddenly looking poor, it’s time for some serious power & serious manuevering. Concerns for passenger comfort or anxiety are out the window. Just get the heck away from the ground RIGHT NOW.
The common causes are landing in very strong gusty winds or encountering a nasty hunk of wake turbulence just in the flare. Jets, particularly jets with underwing engines, can’t handle much banking close to the ground or you drag a wingtip or engine on the ground. That can degenerate into a fireball in a big hurry, so any roll excursions close-in are a strong hint to bag it and try again in a few minutes.
It’s hard to really bounce a big jet, but that’s another case where a rejected landing is almost always in order. In a bounce, the second touchdown is usually a lot worse than the first, and that’s when things start to break. Better to be going around; even if you do touch a second time it’s likely to be less violent and more controlled as you’re starting to get some upward vector.
Hope that’s responsive on the terminology mysteries and some of the motivational background.
Never had a missed approach myself, but i saw one in Denver a couple of years back. My plane from Seattle had just touched down and was taxiing towards the gate. I was looking out my window and saw a plane on its approach. I’m pretty sure it was a 747. It was a few hundred feet above the ground when it suddenly pulled up and roared off into the sky.
I asked our pilot if he had seen it. He said yes, but he wasn’t sure why it had happened. Not sure if the latter part was true, or if he was just trying to spare the us amateurs any anxiety.
First of all, thanks to LSL Guy for tackling the clear-as-mud “go-around/missed approach” terminology.
To add some more, the way the terms are used operationally is a little different. “Go around” carries more urgency, and implies getting the airplane away from the ground. It can be called by anyone in the cockpit or by the tower controller. As mentioned previously, “Missed approach” refers specifically to the IFR procedures to be followed if you don’t land successfully out of an instrument approach.
Maybe some examples will help.
In the first case the airplane is flying an instrument approach (call it an ILS for you pilots), but the weather is very low. As the aircraft approaches decision height, you might hear this in the cockpit (Captain is flying the approach):
First Officer: 500 (feet AGL), on speed, sinking 7 (700 foot-per-minute rate of descent)
FO: 200 above (minimums)
FO: 100 above
FO: Decision height, nothing in sight GO AROUND
Captain: Roger, going around
FO: (To tower): Airline 123 is going around
Tower: Roger Airline 123, fly the published missed approach, contact departure 123.45
FO: Switching 123.45
FO: (To departure): Departure, Airline 123 with you climbing through 1,000 on the missed.
etc…
For the second example we have the same crew coming into Smalltown USA on a clear, beautiful day. They are cleared for a visual approach. Again, the Captain is flying.
FO: 500, on speed, sinking 6
Tower: Airline 123, men and equipment on the runway, GO AROUND, GO AROUND, GO AROUND.
FO: Roger, Airline 123 going around.
Tower: Airline 123, make right traffic, maintain 1,500 feet and stay with me.
FO: 123, right traffic maintain 1,500.
etc…
In the second example the airplane executed a go-around, but did NOT execute a published missed approach. They stayed in the visual traffic pattern and on tower frequency.
So to sum up this confusing mess…if you do a missed approach you have already done a go-around. It’s the result of doing a go-around on an IFR clearance while shooting an instrument approach.
Of course, people often use the terms interchangeably so nailing down a precise definition can be difficult. What I’ve tried to show is how the terms are used day-to-day by the people that do it for a living.
Also:
I’ll speculate, but I provide no guarantees! First of all, DFW has a ton of runways, so closing down one arrival runway is not as big a deal as it would be in Boston or LaGuardia. Depending on the weather and the time of day, it could have been a non-event. As to your problem: hydraulics run many systems on large airplanes. One of the most important is the landing gear, and most likely the nosewheel steering. With no hydraulics the airplane cannot taxi, because you cannot deflect the nosewheel to turn. After you land, you are stuck on the runway until a tug can come out and tow you to a gate.
Since there’s a lot of pilots in this thread, I have to ask: Should this guy have executed a missed approach?
(video link; work-safe)
I haven’t looked at that video link as I’m on a work laptop in a hotel with a low dial-up connection speed. However, I suspect that it may be one in which a twin engined airliner makes a waggly-winged approach followed by a very bouncy landing distinguished by oscillating from the main to nose landing gear. If it is that video, then a) yes, he should have conducted a go-around/missed approach and b) it is not a real event and has been discussed on the 'dope previously.
To the OP. I have never experienced a missed approach as a passenger and have yet to carry one out in anger myself though I have done a fair number of practice ones.
I have carried out a couple of go-arounds in light aircraft.
In one, I was conducting a curved approach in a Pitts Special (in which you maintain a continuous turn to the runway in order to have visibility past the nose of the aircraft). I was landing at at an airfield that was hosting an airshow. The show had finished for the day and we were doing aerobatic rides. The airfield had an Air Traffic Controller for the weekend but normally didn’t and, while the ATCo was on duty, it was operating on a different radio frequency.
ATC had finished for the day so the radio had reverted back to the normal frequency. Unfortunately someone in a C172 lined up to take off while I was about to land. I asked a couple of times if he would be able to roll before I touched down but it would appear he was still on the ATC frequency and sat there conducting checks oblivous to my presence.
So, I had to go-around.
At the same airshow, once again after the ATC frequency had reverted to the normal non-controlled frequency, I saw one aircraft (a DC3 I think) try and take off from one end of the runway while another aircraft, a C130 Herculese simultaneously took off from the other end. The runway has a hump in the middle so neither of the aircraft could see each other. The DC3 was air borne by the time they saw each other and the Herc aborted the take-off. It would seem that one of the aircraft was on the wrong frequency.
Back to the subject of missed approaches, it is unfortunate that what is a safe and essentially normal manoeuvre seems, to the uninitiated, to be very abnormal. It is not uncommon to get news headlines in Australia like:
200 PASSENGERS NARROWLY ESCAPE DEATH
The following article generally contains phrases such as “vertical climb”, “dropped out of the sky”, “terrified passengers”, “screaming”, and “only seconds from disaster”.
The article is almost entirely based on passenger reports and the journalists either don’t know enough to see through the emotions, or they are quite happy to have a sensational story (pick one depending on your cycnicsm).
I hope that the OP takes heart from the words of the airline pilots in this thread and that the next time you experience a missed approach it will be a little less hair raising.
I’ve always wondered how they get the power to do that. If I wanted off and they refused, I would inform them that they would be receiving news of the investigation into their kidnapping charges. Really. Whom do they think they’re playing with?
Movies have hospital personnel tell patients that they’re not leaving, but that flatly contradicts kidnapping laws and the patients’ rights that I gather many hospitals are made to give to patients in printed form.
and you would have looked very silly, because nobody was keeping you against your will, but you’d gone againt the terms & conditions of the ticket and so possibly invalidated your whole journey. (WAG, of course)
The last time I flew into Rome ( and doesn’t that sound dandy ? ), we had the unfortunate luck to experience what is known as a “kiss-off”.
We were approaching Rome’s Fiumicino Airport. The fog was wicked and gorgeous- as we approached Italy, we could see the heavy fog out in the ocean. Most of the ocean was clear, there was fog a mile or two or three offshore and it moved across the countryside, and in and around the famed hills of Rome.
We flew into it, and descended. 100% blindness. Suddenly we went from tilting downwards to screaming engines and tilting upwards, pinned back against our seats hard. We re-routed to an airport about an hour outside of Rome.
It wasn’t till the next day when I was told by a man on the flight who was working the same job as I was, ( who was a pilot by hobby ) just how close we’d come to dying. The airplane had done a sudden reversal of angle, and acceleration upwards. The pilot had not slowed down and angled gently as we approached, and we were very close to plowing into the tarmac.
Heartsick, I tell ya. Heartsick. This pilot had been flying for years, and was shaken in telling me just how bad it really had been.
:eek:
Cartooniverse
They’re not “playing” with anyone. An individual travelling on a commercial airliner has limited rights as to freedom of movement. They surrender a certain amount of control when entering into the contract outlined on an airline ticket. No passenger will be allowed to deplane just because they want to, or are irked, or don’t want to miss a connecting flight.
I’ve worked a day or two at airports. I know other Dopers who work at, or have spouses working at airports. They are incredibly dangerous places. They are not geared towards the free range movement of individuals. They are in fact beautiful examples of social engineering. Masses of people, moved efficiently and controlled carefully and safey. I’ve been allowed on a runway exactly twice. Both times it required enormous planning and permits and an escort from the facility that ran the airport. ( Both times, that would be the Port Authority of New York & New Jersey ).
You are not being kidnapped, nor held against your will. If a person is deemed physically ill or in need of medical attention or a situation arises requiring law enforcement, the plan can be approached, or the plane will be returned to a gate to be boarded. Otherwise, you have agreed to allow the crew to make safe decisions on your behalf.
No private person would ever be permitted to deplane just because they felt they were being kidnapped by dint of being kept on the tarmac for say, 7 or 8 hours. It’s simply not the way the transportation business works. That may displease people, but it is the truth.
As for patient’s rights, I know a thing or two about this. I’m a retired E.M.T. When you have a patient who is refusing care, they are allowed to. This includes but is not limited to refusing life-saving care. If, however, it is deemed by the medical staff involved that there are issues of self-determination, ability to be responsible for one’s own decisions and/or suicide issues, then the patient’s right to self-determination and refusal of care may and are sometimes overridden. I am telling you I have sat in the back of an ambulance during my Orientation, and watched a rational calm man refuse A) A BP Cuff, and B) an I.V. to try to suppress a suspected cardiac situation from blooming. He knew he might throw a massive M.I. right there and die, and he refused all treatment but accepted transportation to the hospital. The Paramedic accepted it and filled out paperwork, asking the man to sign his name to a flurry of documents proclaiming his refusal of medical attention. ( it is called an R.M.A. in the business, Refusal of Medical Assitance ).
Nobody kidnaps a sick patient. The staff will try their best to make sure their patients are able to make an informed decision. Informed Consent is a legal term, and if I hadn’t given away my EMT Manual, I’d be able to cite NY State Law defining it.
Cartooniverse
Three cases, almost or somewhat pertinent:
I was waiting to enplane at Washington National in mid-January right after heavy snow started accumulating. I had attended an international conference held in DC each January. We boarded and got into the queue of planes awaiting clearance to take off. The snow increased as we got further down the queue and then we had to return to the terminal area to be de-iced. Got into the queue again, then more de-icing. After a couple of hours of this, we were cleared and took off. Made it over the South Capital Street Bridge and had a successful flight. A later flight, Air Florida, did not, during the same conditions. Remember Lenny Skutnick swimming thru the ice floes to save folks? That was in 1982. I have flown only 3 times since then even though I later managed a small industrial airport for several years.
While managing that airport which has three 4,500-foot runways in triangular form, the main one of which is one degree off the same alignment as another (general aviation) airport 6 miles away, I was supervising the removal of some lateral obstructive trees when I heard a tremendous roar and turned around to see a commercial jetliner performing a missed approach maneuver so that it would not land on our runway. Had it landed, it would probably have had to be dismantled and trucked to its destination, 6 miles further on as our runways are about 2,000 feet too short for a proper takeoff by that big a jet. Wish I’d had my camera.
Off the OP, but I got a kick out of having to strap on and wear a parachute while taking a military hop in a small (6-passenger) plane going on leave from Naples to Nice. SOP, I guess.
Flying to Boston this summer, on the way out from O’Hare, one of the engines wouldn’t start. Sat on the ground for a couple hours waiting on that to be fixed.
Two days later, on the return flight into O’Hare, the missed approach – I swear we were only 15’ above the runway when we went up again. Thought we were done for until the pilot came on and said another plane was crossing the runway, not to panic: too late for that for some of the passengers!
I’m flying again in December – let’s hope it’s an uneventful ride!
Many years ago I was on a nighttime flight trying to land in Madison, Wisconsin. Aborted landing #1 was followed by aborted attempt #2. I can’t remember how dramatic it was, so it must not’ve been too bad. On the third try we made it.
What I remember is the Captain getting on the overhead afterwards to complain bitterly about the incompetent air traffic controllers. He made it clear a formal complaint would be made. Once he’d changed his drawers.
I assumed I might be voiding the ticket, but they can’t physically restrain me to keep me on the plane.
Yes, they can.
The main argument being “for your own safety”.
Airports are incredibly dangerous places. Most of their area is not safe for people to be walking around in. A major hub basically has things the size of buildings moving around, some of them at very high speeds. Given things like the wake of a launching/landing airplane, their complete inability to stop on dime and the temperature of jet exhaust, an airplane doesn’t need to touch you to injure or kill you. Every year airport personnel who are trained to move about with some safety are injured or killed. Joe Public is so ignorant of the dangers he doesn’t realize how ignorant he is.
The liability of allowing you roaming rights over the ramp/runway areas is too great. Also, aside from the legal issues, if you’re sucked into a jet engine not only will it kill you, it will also pretty much trash the engine, too, and lead to all sorts of other problems, like expensive repairs and witnesses sueing for “mental trauma”. And your heirs might be upset that you will be returned to them in a form somewhat resembling a charbroiled smoothie.
If ever passengers need to be removed from an aircraft the procedure is to load them into something like a bus and move them to another area that way.
I’m sorry you seem so adamant about this, Cardinal. I am hesitant to call an airline and ask someone what the FAA Regulations are regarding keeping passengers on a plane because those are the kinds of calls that make alarms go off these days.
** Note: I am in no way advocating or promoting any of the following behaviors.**
Think about it. The door is locked from within. By the crew. You want off. The crew asks you to sit down. You refuse and demand to be let out, claiming it is your right. You’re in an airplane, man. ( woman. whichever ). You cannot force a crew member to open the airplane for you. Lacking a rolling ladder or jet-way, you’d fall and be badly injured. You could blow the emergency door and inflatable sliding chute and try to get out over the wing. You would find yourself alone on an airport runway- as mentioned by myself and other, an incredibly dangerous place. You’d also be in a truckload of trouble.
Even before the Sept. 11th attacks, the laws concerning permissable behaviors while on board an aircraft were pretty well set in stone. They’ve just been carved a bit deeper in there nowadays.
You wouldn’t incur the wrath of the FAA. You’d incur the wrath of the F.B.I., who would want to know what your agenda was in causing such an event.
Look at it this way. It’s like listening to the Howard Stern Show. Nobody forces you to tune in. If airplanes are that upsetting to you… don’t get on one ! You know that there is a chance that you can be kept onboard for many, many hours due to mechanical, runway traffic or inclement weather reasons.
I was going to New Orleans one time, when a T-storm decided to park itself over MSY. After a couple of landing attempts, the pilot diverted to Baton Rouge. United did not have a contract at Baton Rouge, so the aircraft had to sit on the ramp and wait for the sotrm to clear from over New Orleans. Many passengers were frightened (there had been a lot of turbulence – personally, I thought it was fun) and wanted to get off of the aircraft. Ironically, there were a few passengers whose destination was Baton Rouge who had decided for whatever reason to fly into New Orleans; but no one was allowed to leave the aircraft.
It was hot in the aircraft at the end of July. The doors were opened, but there was no more ice. The toilets were full. I heard there were sick-sacks piling up.
People were told that if they attempted to leave the aircraft they would be arrested. The pilot said that the only way anyone was leaving would be if there was a medical emergency, in which case the person would be turned over to paramedics (who would presumably take them to hospital). Some people claimed illness (from the heat, claustophobia, or whatever) and were taken away by the EMTs.
After sitting on the ground for an hour or so, we took off and flew to New Orleans.
(until a pilot comes along to enlighten)
I’ve seen that video before, and I’m 99% sure that it is one that was faked for a beer commercial. No cite, though…
Yep, it was for a Heinekin promo…