So the Rs have done this self destructo act lately, by this very method, and you need to push on us here a line that it’s not that: it’s really everyone who does this and none of the reasons for the R party of 2020 can be attributed to ideological matters.
It was really just an accident…
She is absolutely extremist. Have you read the green new deal?
I guess the point I am trying to make (for those who aren’t trying to misunderstand what i am saying) is that iiandyiiii’s statements are only opinions. He is presenting his OPINION to rebutt FACTS. His opinions are worthless in the face of facts, or at least they should be.
I think that is because you are also fairly extreme. Some of the things you would find acceptable or even desirable are pretty far to the left.
Not the stuff like Universal health care and higher taxes. Every Democrat from Biden to Schumer agree with that stuff. It’s the stuff that the AOC brand Democrats condemn the Biden camp Democrats for not supporting.
If you don’t agree with the majority of Democrats then go start your own party, stop trying to hijack ours. We don’t need a tea party revolution in the Democratic party.
I like her most recent tweets calling for unity behind whoever wins the primaries (which is clear enough at this point that she knows she is basically supporting Biden). There may be hope for her yet.
You haven’t presented any facts that rebut my opinions.
This is just, like, your opinion, man.
We have big tighty righty, and tighty whitey, problems right now. We don’t have lefty problems really. If the right is a problem structurally for society (it is) then the left is where the good ideas are going to be from. This would be because they are opposing each other on matters of public policy. Duh.
To what extent are they staking out postions in opposition of the other? I’m going to say as much as is humanly possible and then moreso.
Holding onto old ideas as a middle way between left and right is not going to work except to seal us up in oligarchy.
If the right slides into bad public policy, because republicanism, then how could anyone argue that there needs to be a balance of left and right? Or that the left presents a “threat”? A threat to what? To bad tighty righty public policy?
Sorry to jump in, but I have read it. Can you point to where its extreme bits?
Perhaps you don’t understand what it is I think is the opinion I am countering with fact.
Your opinion is that AOC has only replaced shitty Democrats. In fact the very first Democrat she unseated was a very progressive Democrat.
Your opinion is that the Justice Democrats are not comparable to the tea party. I presented facts that show how the tea party pulled the party to the right and how the Justice Democrats are attempting to pull the party to the left.
You might like what the justice Democrats are doing just like some conservatives like what the tea party did. but that is what the Justice Democrats are doing. They are trying to fight crazy with a different brand of crazy.
Yes, that is why I preface everything with the words “I think that…” That is a common way that people indicate that the words that follow are an opinion.
I think a government job guarantee is extreme.
100% renewable energy by 2030 is extreme especially when nuclear is also considered unacceptable
Raising marginal tax rates to 70% is extreme
That’s off the top of my head. I suspect there are other things I might have missed.
Did she have a government takeover of health care in there?
No, she hasn’t replaced anyone except for Crowley. But she’s only advocated replacing shitty Democrats. She replaced Crowley because she ran for his seat. Progressives running for seats in very blue districts is always a good thing and I’ll always be in favor of it. My statement earlier was about her political advocacy – which, as far as this discussion is concerned, has been for replacing shitty Democrats.
Unless and until she helps lose a Democratic House seat, I’m going to disagree with you here, and you haven’t presented any facts that run counter to what I’ve asserted.
They also both are made up of humans who breathe oxygen. Obama also tried to pull the country to the left, just like Hitler tried to pull Germany to the right. And all of these things have roughly the same relevance and connection to each other.
In other words, you’re offering nothing more than saying, over and over again, they’re like the tea party. But you saying they’re like the tea party doesn’t make them like the tea party. And trying to pull a party in one direction or the other doesn’t make them like the tea party. There have always been groups that try to pull parties in one direction or the other, and they’re not always like the tea party. Only the ones that consistently advocate for bigoted, harmful, and stupid policies are like the tea party.
“Crazy” is an opinion, and I disagree with it.
AOC claims to be a ‘Democratic Socialist’ right?
Then she should be forced to resign and run as the third party she is.
She won’t be missed at all.
If you want to doom the future of the party, sure. I, for one, would prefer if energetic and talented young progressives were welcomed by the party, since so many young people are as progressives as she is. Seems like a dumb idea to me to actively reject the type of progressivism that so many young people are attracted to.
AOC larded up her ‘Green New Deal’ with health care, job guarantees, and countless other handouts.
We need a Green Deal that focuses on reversing man-made climate catastrophe. AOC just ladled lard out to do-nothings.
And this is what the tea party did. I have no desire to see what happened to the Republican party also happen to the Democratic party. At least one of the parties has to present a sane option.
She replaced a good Democrat with herself, a politician so bad that even YOU have to defend her based on what she may one day become.
The constituency of those house seats is also important. Less loonies in the party is better than more loonies in the party. All you are saying is that she is only going after Democrats in safe seats. How is that a good thing?
That is a pretty silly argument. Obama didn’t do anything that a mainstream Democrat wouldn’t do. AOC is pushing for politicians that are well outside the overton window. The type of politician that can ONLY win in a safe Democratic seat.
I’m not saying they are like the tea party because they hold the same beliefs as the tea party. I thought that would be obvious. They are like the tea party because they are targeting fellow Democrats in safe seats to try and push the party as far left as possible regardless of what that means for the country and the party as a whole.
Of course it’s just a descriptor but it’s not a bad one. It’s a matter of opinion but the argument has been presented that what the tea party did was great for the Republican party. And maybe so but it was horrible for the country. We got an ultra partisan party in a two party system that attracted and energized the craziest elements of the right and they installed Donald Trump as President. I feel like we don’t need to try and top them in that race.
If she is the future of the party then we are doomed anyway. What she is pushing isn’t progressivism, it is radical.
I would like my grandchildren to live in a world that isn’t filled with constant turmoil that would come from global warming but the notion that we can get to zero emissions by 2030 is about as close to crazy as you can get policywise.
Post #74 and #76 shows that while you may be a climate activist (I doubt it) it is clear that you are not aware of the societal impact climate change has as it was noticed by the women experts that contributed to Scientific American.
More of how in reality those do-nothings are in reality the future ones that will be affected by the changes in climate.
No, the tea party ran bad people in bad districts. This is different than running good people in good districts. And her side is sane.
The difference here is opinion, not fact. You don’t like these people, so you don’t like the idea of more of them winning. I do like these people, so I do want more of them winning.
This is how the overton window shifts. It’s the only way, in fact, to shift the overton window.
There is no disagreement on facts here – only on opinion. We don’t need to keep beating this horse – you don’t like AOC and her allies, and I do.
We’re liable to get closer if we try than if we don’t.