(Appearent) Execution of Margaret Hassan by Iraqi insurgents: Reaction?

Great Debates
1

I haven’t seen a thread on this, and its not exactly recent news so thought I’d start one. Appearently one of the things captured in Fallujah was several DvD’s showing various people being executed…including (appearently) director of CARE International (in Iraq) 59-year-old Margaret Hassan.

I’m curious why no thread on this exists to be honest. Are we so numbed to random acts of cruelty and violence in Iraq that the senseless execution of an unarmed, blindfolded civilian doesn’t even get a rise out of us? Appearently not, since I got a pretty heated response to my Ouch thread about the slaying of an insurgent by a US marine.

So, for debate: What effect (if any) will this most recent slaying of an unarmed (and FEMALE this time) civilian have on the world community? What reaction? What effect will it have on muslims in general and Iraqi’s in particular (again, if any)? Was this slaying justified due to the struggle of the Iraqi (and friends) insurgency? Will it help their cause? Do you feel that this slaying is comparable to the slaying of an insurgent (albiet appearently wounded and disarmed) by a US serviceman in the assault on Fallujah?

Extra points if you can tell me why there is/was no thread on this (unless I’m mistaken and I missed it of course).

Oh…a story. Since I know how much everyone here loves Fox I’ve chosen them for my OP link (even though AP ran the same story). Cheers! :slight_smile:

-XT

2

Didn’t you see the Pit thread(s)? I think most people probably concurred that the event was more worthy of a Pitting than a debate, though of course there’s nothing wrong with your launching a debate over it either.

3

I never really go to the pit unless someone links a roast of some member into a thread I’m involved in (or my one shinning moment when someone actually bothers pitting me :)). I guess I should have said…why weren’t there any GD threads on it?

-XT

4

X

Tough to find anything to debate about, unfortunatly her murder has gotten lost in all the uproar about the Marine killing the insurgent. Very sad.

5

There’s even a thread in General Questions about her death.

I know the average Iraqi is as shocked and disgusted as we are. I saw some interviews on TV. :frowning:

6

No thread in GD (well, one actually) because everyones pretty much on the same page about it. Can’t really debate if everyone agrees. It’s also not unexpected or the first time (or sadly the second, third, etc.) something like this has happend, so neither the outcome or reactions are very interesting debates.

Still, I’ll go out on a limb and say that the taking and killing of hostages is despicable, we shouldn’t negotiate for thier release, hopefully the Iraqi people will not support hostage takers, and it’s particularly tragic when its a women and a aid worker.

Anyone want to debate?

7

We expect the insurgents to act barbaric. But if its our own men that are senselessly murdering helpless victims that’s an even bigger cause for concern. We are supposed to have the moral highground.

8

I guess I hadn’t realized we were a different species. I thought we were human…and so were they.

I guess there really is not debate here (unfortunately). We can close this one down.

-XT

9

well here’s a reasonable gd question for this: why?

i mean even in the most twisted ideology-crazed-ends-justify-the-means-morality-doesn’t-apply-to-me-god-will-smite-mine-enemies-and-i can-do-no-wrong universe this still doesn’t make sense. This alienated not just the whole world, but pretty much all their potential allies, didn’t it?

It’s just such a totally nihilistic action. Don’t even terrorists want to create goodwill and allies among their own people? I was just listening to an interview with Jessica Stein on CSPAN who said that an important part of most terrorist groups is the charity work they do at home to consolidate support at home.

Well that makes me think - maybe that makes aid workers their biggest competition/threat. Maybe that’s why.

I don’t know. Maybe evil is just evil. Maybe it’s the heart of darkness effect.

Discuss.

If you can stomach it.

10

Thank you GWB.

Without him. She would still be alive.

11

Pretty much universal revulsion, but the OP could have determined that by simply following current news reports, or checking out the many threads that have been posted on this general subject since the first such execution was publicized months ago, rather than asking that question here.

Again revulsion, as borne out by news reports and informal discussion with several of the muslim employees of the company I work for. Also, since the OP apparently has severely limited access to news sources, said revulsion extends to a considerable portion of the Iraqi population. I somehow doubt, however, that htis would automatically grant a free pass for continued brutal behavior by US military forces.

Of course not, and I seriously doubt you would find any single person on this board who would ever argue such.

No, and again I doubt anyone here would argue such. Now, since we’re asking absurdly simplistic questions, here’s one for for the OP: do things like the televised execution of a wounded, unarmed combatant, or referring, as the US military seems to be doing at the moment, to every single Iraqi killed in Fallujah as ‘insurgents’ enhance or worsen the 'world community’s opinion of the US?

If the answer is ‘worsen’, I suspect we’ve also found the answer to the question about world opinion concerning the parties that carried out the Hassan killing, which as I’m sure anyone here would say, is a more heinous and unjustified crime. If the OP disagrees, I welcome specific factual evidence that this is not the case.

There. Not much of a debate, I know, but those were, frankly, piss-poor questions on which to build one.

Why, to give the OP a chance to feel morally superior to everyone else on this board, of course. Obviously, rending one’s garment in front of a bunch of strangers is very important to some people, so why should we spoil the chance for them to show how much more caring they are than everyone else here?

12

That is a decent GD question.

Hostage taking seems to be a somewhat effective tactic, it chased Bangledesh from the coalition, chased away CARE, chased out Turkish companies doing work for the coalition and has probably made other organizations and nations much more cautious about getting involved. Chasing out aid organizations makes life tougher for Iraqis, which makes them less likely to support the US occupation, while chasing out companies and countries working for the coalition further extends the work the already stressed US forces have to do and further lessens the occupations claim to international support. Finally, it’s suspected to be a revenue stream for the insurgents, as several organizations are suspected of paying bribes to get thier people released.

Of course the downside (if your an insurgent) is the bad PR of killing helpless captives, especially in this most recent case where they killed an Iraqi doing aid work. One would like to think this would alientate the populace, but really if the other forms of indiscriminate attack haven’t alienated the people from the insurgency, these targeted individual killings are unlikely to. I also think that perhaps these killings are less shocking to a society used to public execution then to us westerners who are accostumed to rare, relativly humane death sentences carried out after much deliberation.

13

Ridiculous:

you should have said “Thank you terrorist scumbags, without you Ms. Hassan would still be alive.”

Come on, how dare you justify any terrorist act? Are you saying because GWB acted foolishly that every attrocity that occurs in Iraq is his fault? Grow up.

The only person responsible for her death is her killer.

If I had the time to waste I would pit you.

14

Absolutely. The responsibility for the death of a person is the responsibility of those weilding the knife, pulling the trigger or dropping the bomb. Or those that ordered it.

This principle of course also applies to blaming insurgents or wedding parties for air strike ‘collateral damage’.

15

My reation to the whole event is horror and revulsion.

I also think that everyone should avoid watching footage of the execution, by watching it we encourage media attention of the likes of Al Jazeera and thus mena that the events will be repeated.

As an addtional piece of news, I heard on BBC Radio 4 news today that a mutilated body of a woman had been recovered, but that it had not be confirmed as Margaret Hassan’s.

If it is it shows the complete lack of regard these people show for any of the values of civilised people. (By this I mean the specific murderers and not iraqis in general).

16

This all reminds me of the scene in Apocalypse Now where Col. Kurtz describes how the Viet Cong would hack off the arms of vaccinated children. In a perverse way, they are stronger because they are willing to use horror and all we can do is wonder how they can do it.

17

What’s to debate? What idiotic moron would think there are two sides here? An innocent woman who meant nothing but good was brutally murdered by semi-human “COCKROACHES”.

18

This twisted logic that you espouse is not realistic in the least. Are your views of reality really that simple?

19

Blame Blame Blame Blame Solves everything doesn’t it!!

20

Reaction? Universal disgust.

A memorial service was held for her in Kerry, Ireland, where much of her family still live. The scenes on the TV news were heartbreaking.