Two years ago, Yassir Arafat rejected an offer of a Palestinian State, and instead called for an intifada. As a result, many Palestinians have been killed or injured, much of their property was destroyed, the offer of a Palestinian State was withdrawn, and the Central Committee of the ruling Likud Party just voted never to allow a PS on the West Bank.
OTOH Arafat remains in power. Western aid to the Palestinians was increased. Since that money flows through Arafat, his potential share is increased. A Palestinian State might choose a new leader, so it served Arafat’s personal interests that an agreement was averted.
In short, Arafat got everything he wanted; the Palestinian people got screwed.
[insert long string of invective that I thought I better not post outside the Pit]
Yeah, and it’s Sharon’s fault that Hamas suicide bombers massacre Israelis. :rolleyes:
Give us a fucking break will you! How many insidious, inflammatory, crap-ass, uninformed and biased threads slandering the Palestinians, the Arabic region and the Islamic faith do you have in storage? Why can’t you just post them all at once? If you do, do it in the Pit so that we can reply as it deserves.
<< How many insidious, inflammatory, crap-ass, uninformed and biased threads slandering the Palestinians, the Arabic region and the Islamic faith do you have in storage? Why can’t you just post them all at once? If you do, do it in the Pit so that we can reply as it deserves >>
Are we reading the same posts here, Sparc. I see nothing here that slanders Palestinians, the Arabic region, or the Islamic faith. I see an OP that blasts Arafat (the individual) for being a piss-poor leader, for seeking self-aggrandisement and riches at the expense of his people.
The assertion is that Arafat and his cronies sponsor terrorism, funnel money that was expected to help relieve the dreadful conditions to terrorist and military activity, are corrupt and bribery-laden, and have acted against what the OP perceives are the best interests of the Palestinian people.
I see no connection between the OP and your accusations.
While I am no particular fan of december, I find the European contingent’s outrage quite laughable. december certainly did not slander the Palestinians, the “Arabic region,” nor the Islamic faith. A little critical thinking, please.
Here are some cites for you, Pjen, in case you haven’t read a newspaper in the past two years or so.
While you may disagree with the Jerusalem Center For Public Affairs’ bias and interpretation of events, you will be hard pressed to dispute its statements of fact.
1/ A cite from a reputable and neutral source proving that Arafat initiated the Intifada.
2/ A logical connection between the Intifada (which does not include the suicide bombings- check the PLOs own agreement that these are outside the Intifada) and Palestinian deaths and damage caused that were justified Israeli response to the Intifada. As far as I can see it would be fair to say that some of the deaths were the ‘result’ of the Intifada, whereas others were illegitimate Israeli responses to civil disobedience or Israeli reaction to suicide bombings (not part of the Intifada).
3/ Any sign that the offer of a Palestinians state has been withdrawn by anyone other than Israel- who have no legal standing in the matter, only the threat of potential aggression. The US, the EU and the UN still offer a Palestinian State.
4/ Any cite to show that Arafat might lose an election as a result of the Intifada, rather than because he is seen as not progressing that Intifada with enough force- a much more likely scenario.
The UN only has a few square blocks in their complex on the East Side of Manhattan. It’s nice of them to offer that land to be used for a Palestinian State, but it isn’t large enough.
Seriously, for better or for worse, the land for a Palestinian State is under Israel’s control, so their opinion is the one that counts the most.
The State of Israel does hold a veto over this, but only by default. If it became necessary for US ends (for instance the need to invade Iraq) and the US put pressure on Israel- a Palestinian State would spring into existence- and probably will before the winter of 2003.
Neutral? You have got to be kidding. At any rate, from the horse’s mouth:
Perhaps you can tell me how the suicide bombings are not connected with the Intifada. This smacks of hair-splitting sophistry. Next you will be telling us that Antietam was not part of the Civil War.
Your further discussion of causation and “justification” eludes me completely. Please clarify your terms if you wish to discuss this issue further.
Israel has no legal standing? Cite, please.
What about its de facto standing? Which do you think is more important?
Perhaps you can also tell me how I am going to find a relatively accurate cite concerning the condition of the Palestinian electorate, and I use that term very loosely, since the Palestinian people are utterly deficient in the free press department. Not to mention the fact that they seem to enjoy killing those among them who dissent with the extreme right.
The UN has considerably more ‘legal standing’. Israel defends its position as the most internationally accepted state because it was created by a UN ruling. The UN is also ruling that a Palestinian State should be created. Sauce for the goose is sauce for the Gander.
The importance of the US and EU- the vast majority of Israel’s trade is with the EU (first) and the US (second) IIRC the two together count for over 3/4 of Israel’s trade. If a Palestinian State becomes more necessary to US interests than supporting Israel’s current position, then a Palestinian State will appear. If Israel really pisses off the EU (and it’s doing a pretty good job at the minute) then it’s massive trade concessions giving it very special access to European markets could be withdrawn or gradually limited. There are already rolling boycotts of Israeli products in many European countries organised by informal groups.
Additionally a recent poll showed that over 70% of the Israeli population still support a Palestinian State.
I was wondering if anybody else had noticed.