There are real, undeniable and consequential differences in the physical body structures of men and women. No one can argue that. It seems like, by the logic on display in this thread, that fact would directly influence how harshly or lightly we should prosecute and shame cross-gender assault, depending on the direction of that assault
Mostly the former; in fact I would argue that it should really only be the former.
However as a practical matter sentencing has to take into account the result because
- The public would not accept running a person over being treated the same as (extreme) dangerous driving; there is still something of a desire for “revenge”
- We can’t know what was going on in someone’s mind, so we use results to try to judge intent
In terms of your example though, it simply sounds like someone with mental illness. That’s different – if someone breaks a street sign because they think it will save the world from the lizard men, the appropriate response is to give the person treatment for mental illness, same as with the herb garden.
I’d say the majority of the time they are equivalent. The only exception is that when a boy has a one-on-one exclusive relationship with an older woman, since society still treats men as higher-status than women, all else being equal, the boy is not entering into as an unequal a relationship as the other possible gender combinations.
If the older person is cheating on an SO, or is just having a one night stand, I’d say they are equivalent, given the same level of enthusiasm in the teens. I’d be afraid for what the teen can catch from someone who likely enjoys a lot of casual sex.
The fact that men and women are “different” is a non sequitur. How are they different in ways that matter for the ethics of consent?
Is one gender more emotionally and cognitively mature at that age than the other and thus more competent to give consent?
If anything girls’ brains mature faster than boys’ brains do. (A functional difference reflected in changes in brain structure in which girls are two years ahead.)
The ability to give consent is not a function of how physiologically horny someone is, or what wet dreams you had as a kid. It is based on having the individual having the cognitive and emotional maturity to be considered competent to give consent. Boys are slower to mature in those ways ergo if anything sex with an underage boy should be, if anything, a worse offense than sex with an underage girl.
If we base it strictly on the ability to give consent then two 16 year olds have sex and we must send them both to prison.
Indeed legally they can both be prosecuted in many states
https://www.ageofconsent.net/what-is-statutory-rape
In the case of the person below the age of consent… Do they feel there was overt force or threat used? If so it’s rape.
If not it’s statutory rape., Corruption of a minor or whatever term the state actually uses.
So do we apply the law equally here as well.
While, because they are not adults they won’t go to prison but juvie. They may both still be labeled sex offenders.
We don’t, and most would think it ridiculous to do so. Why, because there is an assumed element of coercion in statutory rape.
Simply put people just aren’t as willing to believe a woman coerced a 16 yr old boy into sex.
Yes, it is as bad. Think about it this way:
But she didn’t. You’re imagining a hypothetical sexual encounter that you think would have made you happy. (As a woman, I, also, can imagine hypothetical sexual encounters with some of my male high school teachers that would have made my teenaged-self happy. But they were responsible adult professionals who rightly thought of me as a kid, so they didn’t.)
In the real world, outside of the realms of dreams and fantasies, older adults who choose to have sex with teenagers instead of people their own age are usually pretty deeply messed-up, in ways that tend to mess up their partners as well. Also, sex is rarely a one-and-done thing where both people happily move on, especially when one of them is very immature. Usually, both parties have (often differing) levels of emotional attachment and expectations about future encounters, sometimes also mixed feelings about what happened, guilt, pregnancy scares, etc. The emotional fallout from sex, in short, is likely to be messy in ways that most teenagers are poorly equipped to deal with even with people their own age, let alone a deeply-messed-up older person. So the relevant question isn’t “Would you have happily had a one-time sexual encounter with that attractive teacher?” it’s more like “Would you want your teenage son to have sex with the type of teacher who chooses to have sex with a student, and then spend months dealing with the potential long-term consequences of such an encounter?”
(I say “older adults” to exclude situations where, say, an eighteen-year-old has consensual sex with a sixteen-year-old; it’s completely different when it happens between people who are roughly at the same life stage and can, in the normal course of things, be attracted to each other without either of them being deeply messed-up. It might also be different in societies where relationships with large age gaps are expected and unremarkable, but we don’t live in such a society.)
So yes the determining factor between rape and statutory rape can come down to any number of peoples judgement as to where the line is between coercion and threat.
And yet if UPS paid their male and female drivers differently, they’d get called out on it.
Molesters should be treated the same regardless of their sex.
Okay, for those of you who say a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old son wouldn’t bother you that much…
How would you feel about a thirty year old man having sex with your fifteen year old son?
Getting paid more and getting promoted more isn’t a “privilege”. It’s a privilege.
And compare the number of people who have a job with the number of people who commit a serious crime or get drafted into a war. The ratio of men who face a situation where being a man is an advantage to the ones where being a man is a disadvantage is probably over a hundred to one.
In a thread where the topic is about how society views the older person, I’d say a better question is how would you feel if it was a thirty year old woman having sex with your fifteen year old daughter.
And yet…We are making the same freakin’ point.
And yet . . .yeah, high five.
And girls need to be taught very early not to be cock-teases to all their future male teachers by dressing like little painted whores. Just common sense, nay?
Your uninformed, and i gotta say kinda weird, opinion is duly noted for the record.
This is why i always end up coming back. For the occasional moment of lucid thought and pushback against the eschewing of reason,when group-think would otherwise be leading the discussion down a wormhole.
I will type slower this time (I guess you’re just gonna have to take my word-i am typing slower-just for you). Cite for the claims re rape laws? Notice i didnt say “please blather on as if I didnt ask you the question I did”.
Or where do we draw the difference between " I don’t like that" and a serious crime.
If my 16 yr old stepdaughter decided to date , a woman, man, whatever … I wouldn’t like it. Shes more rational than many adults I know though.
Would I feel like the 30 yr old woman needs to be a registered sex offender, lose all chances of a decent job, serve prison time … absolutely not. I’d feel she needs mandatory counseling, restraining order, maybe a suspended sentence.
After reading that cite of mine seeing that the whole crime part actually hinges on coercion rather than damage. Whether we like it or not is really not what determines the criminality. I’m apt to base any criminality on the general dynamics of those relationships.
Woman coerces boy ( yeah, doubtful)
Woman coerces girl … probably some
Man coerces girl …most likely
Man coerces boy… probably some
If your 20yr old daughter gets involved in porn you won’t like it, doesn’t make it a crime.
The producers are going to record her with her ID , stating what she’s going to do is done willingly and is not coerced. Technically they’ll need to do this with a man too but they never do for straight porn. Why bc noone is going to believe a man was coerced into doing a porn with that young woman.
Would you have been happy to have become a father? Would you be happy with 18 years of child support payments?
I rather suspect that at that age you would not have given either a second thought and such youthful immaturity is what young boys need to be protected against.
Cited, if you can’t find it in this short thread that’s on you, read slowly now. You’ll come across it.