You said you would not date at transwoman. You didn’t qualify that, so the rest of us assumed that was any transwoman at all, not that you were OK with post-op transwomen.
That’s sort of why we’re encouraging to use words and phrasing other people are unlikely to misunderstand.
I’m pretty sure someone, maybe you, said that people shouldn’t assume what other people are thinking.
Okay, I now see why you want to state your criterion on your dating profile as “gender-typical” instead of “not transgender”.
But I still think it comes across as confusing. What you seem to really mean is “somebody with female anatomy, either original equipment or custom-built”.
Yes. And as a man, I would surmise that most men feel the same way. Which is why I’m not sure there is confusion when a man doesn’t want a second date with someone who doesn’t have “original equipment” or “custom-built” equipment as you put it.
I never said there was anything confusing about the fact that most straight men don’t want to have sex with somebody who has a penis. What I said was that I think it’s a bit confusing for you to use the term “gender-typical” when what you mean is essentially “either female-assigned at birth or else somebody I couldn’t tell apart from somebody who was female-assigned at birth”.
I understand that you are using the term “gender-typical” in the sense of “someone whose anatomy is typical of the gender that they identify and present as”. I’m just saying that a lot of people wouldn’t immediately know to interpret that term in that way.
Fair enough. Maybe repetitive use of the term to mean that will lead more people to understand what it means.
Transgenderism, also known as gender dysphoria, is in itself a mental disorder.
With this fact; yes, all transgender individuals who seriously believe they are and/or should be the opposite sex, has a mental disorder.
Quoted for truth.
Much of this thread has centered around dating and or the first date. (And a few pages of confusion largely because of poor terminology - transwoman versus post-op transsexual. The former being any transgendered person whether pre-op, post-op, or not transitioning at all, who identifies as female but was born physically male, while the latter is very specific - someone who is transgendered, has transitioned, AND has had vaginoplasty.)
Anyway, while the first date / dating is a difficulty for transgendered people, what’s even worse are the long term prospects.
In my opinion, there are 3 hurdles someone has to cross if they are dating from the very beginning / prior to their transition:
(In this example, a transwoman, but reverse terms and the same applies for transmen)
If you are a straight trans woman: The man you are with is likely only attracted to men. Once you come out and begin living as a woman, the relationship is over.
If you are a lesbian trans woman: The woman you are with is likely only attracted to men. Once you come out and begin living as a woman, the relationship is over.
If you meet someone after you are already living as a woman, and they are content with your outward appearance not matching your anatomy - they may not be equally content with the idea of you completing your transition. Once you have the final surgery, if their preference is someone who does have a penis (or some time before, if it becomes nonfunctional at some point in the process), then the relationship is over.
Once your transition is complete, any relationship you have is going to reach a point where you disclose that you were raised as a member of the opposite sex. And finding out if the other person has a problem with that. If they do, the relationship is over.
I can understand why many who are transgendered give up on relationships and dating. There aren’t a whole lot of people who are: a) bisexual, if they’re going to be with you through your entire transition, and b) accepting of transgendered persons. And you’re competing against every other trans person to find that particular needle in a haystack.
On the topic of disclosure: If we’re talking about meeting someone in the 1) stage, I did not disclose this, because it is not relevant to disclose during casual dating. However, I did find a rather important and necessary thing to share if things were becoming serious and there was a prospect of a long term relationship.
When you are in the 2) / transitioning phase: IMO pre-disclosure is not only none of their business, but as others have mentioned, dangerous. People get beaten and killed every year for casually revealing that information before they have learned if they can trust that person. And at the very least, they can ruin your career and family life with very little effort and sometimes without even intending to do so. I would say any time prior to becoming intimate with the other person is the right time, if that person feels that it is - and the wrong time if they don’t.
Sure, you can, but if you use clap to mean flu and flu to mean clap, you can’t complain when you’ve got a high fever and people applaud.
Those terms are not synonyms.
Uh, if you tell people you have the clap, they’re definitely not going to applaud. (They probably aren’t going to want to date you, either)
Luckily, there is no requirement to tell people, so they will still want to date you.
I agree that the “when” is where we disagree.
I think I have stated the reason why being upfront is the best course. What is the point behind waiting until the 10th date when things are about to get hot and heavy? Is it just to give yourself some time to figure out if this person is going to beat you up (so its a method of vetting your romantic partners before you reveal yourself to them)? Is it because you think that with enough emotional attachment people might be willing to give it a shot even if they wouldn’t have when you first started dating (so its a method of expanding your pool of romantic partners)?
The vast majority of my dates have either been with people who set us up or with people i knew for a while before we ever started dating. Is everyone just using dating sites these days? If so then why don’t the dating sites allow you to screen out transgender folks so that you never get matched with someone that is transgender?
Without picking on any one post or person in particular, I have still not seen any convincing argument as to why someone who does not want to date a transgender person should not be open and forthright about that on a dating site, right in their profile where it can’t be missed.
Maybe - is that really so bad? If after several dates you have reason to fear physical violence then that’s an excellent reason to end the relationship.
There’s a point where the wait is too long, but I think individual circumstances vary so much that I wouldn’t give a hard and fast rule.
Another possibility. I don’t think that is likely to work, but it might. If someone gets to know you as a person first rather than as a “condition” that could alter how accepting they are.
Maybe it’s a combination of the above.
I have no real idea - I’ve been off the market for the last 30 years myself, and don’t feel ready at the moment to start pursuing another romance. I’m not even sure I care about another romance at this point, I’m still grieving the loss of my spouse.
I suspect “dating sites” are a bit like bars and clubs were back when I was last dating - it’s a common way to meet up with people, but not the only one, and not even always the best one.
Because there is NOTHING dishonest about it. There is no intent to deceive or misinform anyone about their aversion to transgender romantic partners. The population of people who don’t want to date transgender is very high, the population of transgender is very low. That is why utilitarian principles inform ethics here.
I said WHAT?!?!? I may have pointed out something YOU said but I don’t think there is a stigma attached to not wanting to date transgender. None whatsoever.
Nope, you’re getting really good at being wrong.
I don’t think there is ANY stigma attached to an aversion to dating transgender or even HIV. NONE.
Transgenderism is too rare for your idea to warrant much more than a chuckle.
Nope, you’re wrong again.
It’s customary in here to either provide a citation for an extraordinary claim, or at least be known as having some sort of real-life experience or expertise.
The APA (who publishes the DSM) states “It is important to note that gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition.”
As has been discussed at length, transition is a meaningful and validated method for improving quality of life and for relieving distress of transgender persons. My professional experience working at a psychological counseling institute that almost exclusively treats transgender persons, as well as my experience with the community on 4 continents, has been exactly that as well.
Nope, I was just quoting the inconsistency in YOUR position
If you consider 80%+ “near universal” then sure. 80%+ of all MEN AND WOMEN don’t want to date transgender.
They’re not. Its just not something you think about until the situation presents itself because its so fucking rare.
Transphobia or not, 80%+ do not want to date transgender. Knowing this, not disclosing your transgender status before getting romantically involved is deceptive. Its not the end of the world but its dishonest.
You have a very weird definition of virulent.
80%+ of people are averse to dating trasngender. That’s men and women. I insist that dating someone who does not know you are trans when you know that 80% of people wouldn’t want to date you if they knew is dishonest.
You can go out and date strangers (I don’t think I have done this very frequently outside of blind date sort of situations) but if so then you are being dishonest if you don’t tell them you are transgender.
I can’t pretend that I can walk in your shoes. I understand that the ostracization by family and friends can be severe. I don’t know how it scales with coming out as gay but I suspect its at least as bad as coming out was in the 1980s. Most of the other stuff seems like things that can be addressed with legislation.