What Revtim said.
Although personally, I can and have been attracted to women of all race. But in the end, I ended up with this blonde caucasian Dutch girl. Boring, huh 
Defect borg:
“Refutile is sistance. Your ass will be simulated”.
WallyM7 on Coldfire:
"Yeah, he knows a little about everything because they have a good prison library."
I think, Revtim, that people are offended by the phrasing of the OP as “are BLACK women looking better?” We have all been carefully taught during the last 30 years or so, that it is politically incorrect to single out a person because of his or her race, to say, “Look at that pretty BLACK woman,” rather than, “Look at that WOMAN.” We’re supposed to accept people regardless of race, creed, color, or national origin. We’re not allowed to say, “Look at that pretty CHINESE girl” or “Look at that gorgeous DUTCH female person.” It seems to imply that all you’re seeing is the fact that she’s black, or Chinese, or Dutch. Does this make sense? It’s getting late, I’m not sure what I’m typing anymore, and besides, somebody’s watching “First Knight” in the other room and I keep getting distracted by the retarded dialogue. I’m glad Sean Connery can still get employment, but geez…What a stupid movie.
But I digress.
“Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast!” - the White Queen
No, not really. If I say to any other guy, “look at that black girl over there”, indicating a single black girl in a crowd of people of other races, it means that I’m using the most obvious characteristic of the person in question to try to allow my buddy to pick her out her more easily.
ME: “Yo, check out, uh, that girl over there in the pink T-shirt”.
HIM: “What, that six-foot Nordic blonde? Nice legs.”
ME: “No, two over to the left.”
HIM: “Oh yeah, the brunette with the big hooters? Wonder if they’re real, though.”
ME: “Uh, no, the one next to her.”
HIM: “What, you mean that good-looking black girl? Why didn’t you say so in the first place?”
When discussing women, guys usually focus on physical characteristics, skin color often being the least of them. Welcome to the real world.
DHR
Revtim, ordinarily I think I would agree with you. I hate hyper-sensitivity in any form.
However, as many people have pointed out on this board before, we don’t have the luxury of hearing inflections, seeing facial expressions, detecting little voice nuances when reading a post. All we have to work with is what is written.
The OP says,"…but are some black women looking good?" and I read it as meaning this was something out of the ordinary. It does not say that he (or she, who knows) finds it to be unusual because he typically likes other types. He has stated it in such a way that it is highly possible that others also interpreted this to mean the phenomenon of attractive black women is unique in general and something fairly recent.
So far as your example goes, it is not the same thing. You have restated the OP in words that mirror your impression of what was being said. If I were to do the same thing based on how I read it, my version would say something like, “Is it just me or are black women starting to actually look attractive or what? I mean, I’m watching these movies and these black women are kind of pretty. Even some of the models. Do you think it’s because they have mixed race parentage or something?” See, that is exactly how I see the OP and it does have a condescending, slightly racist air about it.
I guess different people just read it different ways but judging from the responses and the fact that it got some actual feedback and no really strong flames (except for android209 and maybe weirddave), I’d say everyone is trying to take the wording with a grain of salt and give the guy (girl) a small chance to qualify the OP.
“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!
A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!
???
I guess I --didn’t? --understand the OP. At all.
Was he saying maybe something like this?:
“Wow, lately some seriously gorgeous women have been cast in ‘black’ roles in movies–when did this start? Is it now ok for a non-black director to put a good-lookin’ sister on the screen where any guy–black, white, yellow, whatever–can lust after her? It seems like back before 1980, black women in movies, etc. were decidedly less…exciting. Just ordinary-looking, or just played for comic-relief. The white directors didn’t want to offend people by putting a GOOD-LOOKIN’ black woman up there…”
Aahh, who knows, I’m posting at 4 a.m. again…
Yes, I am an egomaniac; why do you ask?
…You didn’t ask?
Ah, but I knew you were dying to!
…You weren’t?
Oh yeah, &:
“…But now, interracial sexiness is OK, so guys aren’t all freaked out by looking at Tyra Banks, etc. But hey, didn’t Bond have a black woman back in the '70’s (Live & Let Die)? Maybe there’s a thing developing here…”
Evilbeth, the way you read the OP, and the way I read the OP, mean EXACTLY the same thing.
All it takes is a moment’s thought to realize that when someone says “x is attractive” it means “I personally find x attractive”, because there is no such thing of objective beauty.
OK, folks, there is an interesting discussion developing here, one that I find valid. Let me restate my concern with the OP. To me, the question " Are black women looking better these days?", implied that there was something wrong/strange/different about being atracted to someone who has brown skin, and that is what I objected to. The most beautiful woman I have ever see was of Japanese/African ancestry. The best pure sex I ever had( don’t tell my wife ) was with a brown woman. I object to classifying people by their hue, thats all.
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Well damn, I guess I should be pretty damn attractive then
Doobieous - whos ethnic heritage includes the English, Welsh, Scottish, Dutch, German, French, Spanish, Filipino, and Native American.
With all due respect, Revtim, I don’t think so. Your interpretation seems to be “My, but aren’t there quite a few attractive ladies of African decent gracing the Silver Screen these days?” My interpretation seems to be, “For some reason, black women are really starting to get get pretty here recently.” Your version (of the OP) assumes that black women have always had an inherent beauty and it just so happens that more roles are opening up for them. My version assumes that black women have never been particularly attractive in general but for some unknown reason they have recently started to become more appealling. Do you see the difference? Does that make any sense?
“You don’t have insurance? Well, just have a seat and someone will be with you after you die.” --Yes, another quality sig custom created by Wally!
A Jesusfied sig: Next time I covet thine opinion, I’ll ask for it!
Evilbeth, in my interpretation, I meant to imply that the poster never found black women attractive in the past, on or off the screen.
I just figured that Farmer never was attracted to blacks women in the past, and lately found some of them attractive. Nothing to do with screen roles, directly. I still feel that our interpretations mean the same thing.
I also stand by my opinion that although Farmer could have said it more PC, his assertion that he finds black women more attractive lately and that that could be the result of them having more white features is not racist, but simply his personal sexual preference.
I have no control over which women I’m attracted to, and I assume he’s the same.
I think with the media hyping a certain look above others and with blacks now being “allowed” into the mainstream of society, the women are adopting the same line of bullshit that their white sisters have been following for years. “You have to look like this to attract a man. You have to be tall, slim, feminine.”
And I don’t think black women used to be fat and mean. I think they were strong and forceful. Some people can’t deal with that.
You know, it gets to be real damn hard to discuss anything concerning race without someone jumping in to accuse you of being a racist, a bigot, a White Supremacist and so on. It doesn’t seem to matter if what you are discussing is genuine or not!
Years ago, because of the discovery of tribes in Africa with real vestigial tails, plus the often made comparison to a Black person via skin tone and facial structure to guerillas, brought up the possibility among some scientists communities that the Black people might be directly along the evolutionary scale from monkeys. I recall reading a study which even pointed out similarities between the habits and social structure of guerillas and some Black tribes.
It was not done in a bigoted way, nor was presented as a racial slur but was genuine curiosity, combined with Darwinism, and I found it fascinating, since I do agree that we all came from apes.
That theory cannot be presented today without creating a massive outcry. The theory did not just affect Blacks, but all races because it suggested that evolution ticks along like growing plants. Some grow faster than the others. It suggested that all people, in a way, actually went through a stage where their ancestors were Black (which would please the Nation of Islam), and that diversity and environmental mutation caused the subsequent changes.
It was believed that the monkeys are still evolving and are links in an evolutionary chain and Blacks are one step of it and then it went into how from the Blacks it splintered into the olive color of Middle Easterners, the yellow of Asian, the White of Caucasian, the swarthy darker hue of Italians and so on.
No specific race was determined to be the ‘end product’ because it was recognized that several races would have mutated around the same time.
You cannot discuss that theory now. The NAACP along with every mouthy antiracist will jump in and scream about how you’re racist and a bigot and an asshole. The theory is not even published anymore.
Now you cannot discuss hardly anything that might be critical of Blacks. You sure can discuss anything critical of Whites, though. From the way we walk, to the way we talk, to the way we dance to how we have sex. Even the fact that Whites have the highest rate of serial killers and sexual perverts is tossed into the mix.
I recall the term ‘White Trash’ used for poor, Southern Whites. Hell, there used to be cartoons about the, depicting the men as lanky, stubbly faced, beer guzzling, womanizing, gap toothed, moron level IQ, squabbling and often dirty lay abouts. The women were pictured often as fat, barefoot, wearing too tight clothing, bitchy, trailer trash, low income housing using, think-I’m-sexy, left school at 6th grade and popped 6 kids, rolling pin swinging and beer guzzling idiots.
That was OK, though, because they were White. I recall how comics, cartoons, comedians, books, jokes and articles dealt with the mountain folk as scraggly, daughter sexing, inbred, moonshining, murdering, no education, barefoot, big hatted and heavily bearded morons.
Again that was OK because they are White.
Discuss a Black person’s obviously huge lips, predominate butt, or the physical differences between them and everyone else and you get savaged! There are differences! They can be talked about.
Bring up the crime statistics and see the higher level of Black crime in comparison to White and you get told that the figures are rigged, or that cops and judges treat Blacks unfairly.
Some years back, the Irish and the poor within a certain range, as well as the Italians rated the high statistics, but, again, that was OK, because they were White. They did not gripe about how unfair the ‘system’ was.
So, get off of it!
Black women ARE changing and so are Black men and they are looking better and breaking down the self defeating ‘nigger’ attitude – a futile and false way of saving racial identity. (I loved that. They go screaming equality, then start creating Black habits, language and dress to keep separate.)
(No one noticed the Chinese doing the same thing because they did not get all bitchy about it, demanding ‘Yellow’ rights, screaming about past suppression and all of that stuff. They just did their own thing and there are several major Chinese communities in some cities where they speak Chinese and dress often in their traditional clothing and NO ONE GIVES A CRAP!)
I even know Black guys who dislike their own women getting too fat. Several married cute Black girls and right after the honeymoon, they started putting on weight and the guys divorced them when they turned huge and refused to loose it. I know Black comedians joking about the Black, skinny woman with their ‘gnarly, big feet,’ their propensity to consider a man’s worth by his cash instead of the real him, their ‘natty’ hair styles and so on. (See, that’s OK because it is Blacks making fun of Blacks.)
I watch the Black Comedy Channel from time to time and observe them making jokes about themselves in ways that a White Comic would have the NAACP and everyone else on his ass for. They love to crack slanderous jokes about Whites, but no one gets all upset about THAT.
So, those of you who gripe about the tone of this thread, GET REAL and GET OFF OF IT!
(Well, this oughta bring them howling out of the woods after my blood.)
Some mornings, it’s just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Gee Sentinal, I think there is a difference between equality of oppertunity and sameness of culture. It’s not “I want to be white,” but “I want to be able to do the same things that white people can.” I sympathize with how hard it is to be a white man these days, now that you all can’t act like jerks all the time wihtout someone telling you not to, but we have to be careful not to get things like that mixed up.
As for Farmer being more attracted to black women, maybe it is because they are being forced to look and act more “white” in order to appeal to a wider audience.
EVEN SVEN
Define ‘White.’
There are no pure Whites anymore. (Who cares?) We have blood in us from the Spanish, the Chinese, the Japanese, the American Indian, the Eskimo, the French, and, of course, the Black. That started back when the Romans were trying to take over the world.
By the way WHITE lifestyles are a conglomeration of various NONWHITE lifestyles from across the globe. This so called WHITE lifestyle is the primary style (with certain cultural changes) used across the world. We got most of it from the British. They adopted some from the Spanish and French, then along came the Asians and contributed also and portions of the various Indian styles were incorporated. Just like the English (WHITE) language is a hodge podge of phrases from across the globe.
The actual process is called adaptation. One adapts to the general life style of the nation one is in. Society evolves. Clinging to the shreds of an antiquated and potentially dead end culture is fun for a hobby, but not practical. All over our nation we have cultural celebrations, from the Irish, to the Swedes, to the Italian, the Hindus, the Jewish, and so on, but in daily life we agree with the general ‘norm.’
In the 1960s and the 70s the Blacks were doing fine. They justifiably obtained civil rights and freedoms unjustly withheld from them and they expanded into society rapidly. The popular Black singers, comics, actors and music groups of those years were looking and acting good!
Suddenly, it became necessary to not want to be equal, but separate and equal and on THEIR terms. Everyone had to go find their roots. Colored People became unacceptable as a term. Negro was sneered at. Black just marginally survived and abruptly they were African Americans and every Black young man was a ‘Nubian Prince’ and every Black woman a ‘Nubian Queen or Princess’.
Out came the African dress, they ‘created’ Kwanzaa for a feel good BLACK mainly holiday, tried to push Ebonics on everyone – which just encouraged bad English but THAT type of BAD English was BLACK bad English and therefore CULTURAL. (Bull crap!) Suddenly they started abandoning their Christian religions, seeking out any form of religion that seemed Black based and the Nation of Islam was created out of a distorted Moslem form that even Moslems disavow.
The WHITE tendency in the 60s to give their kids goofy names was surpassed by the Black desire to name themselves anything but White names, so out pops Islamic names, then come African names, followed by African names that never ever got near Africa. Then came the BLACK attitude, where Blacks are meaner, stronger and badder than the Whites. Cries of segregation produced antidiscrimination laws, BUT Black people are allowed to create, own, operate and promote BLACK only businesses and entertainment. WHITES are not allowed to do this.
Then came the BLACK movie directors who insisted on displaying the BLACK culture as mean, tough, fragmented, and dishonest and now it has backfired on them. (In current testing, using cartoon characters, one Black and one White, in two identical sets, a boy is shown walking away and accidentally dropping money. Another boy is behind him picking it up. The boys are Black and White. Their roles are reversed in the two sets of cartoons. When shown to school kids of 2nd and 3rd grades, these results were shown: If the Black boy was picking up the money, over 75% of the White Kids felt he was stealing it. The Black kids registered close to 95%. If the White Boy was shown picking up the money, the results were NEARLY THE SAME, except they felt the White Boy was going to RETURN the money.)
Pretty good influence the bad ass Black attitude has shown kids, isn’t it? Even on their own kids. Blacks created ‘gangsta’ rap exaggerating stereotypical Black mannerisms and celebrating ghetto dress, morality and society and that helped separate the Blacks from the rest of the society in general.
Whites started copying many of the Black things – GEEZ! They couldn’t help it with the communications media hammering at them that anything Black is not supposed to be negative, Blacks need to be sympathized with because of racial oppression, and Blacks need to be treated differently from any other race – including the still oppressed and struggling American Indian. Then Blacks got pissed at Whites copying them because Whites are ‘stealing Black culture’ instead of considering it flattery.
Along came affirmative action, which was NOT meant to be forever and Black businesses flourished but along with it came people who slacked off in their jobs because they knew they HAD to be hired and that firing them, because they are Black, would be a problem. So, when affirmative action folded, the Blacks protested.
The Irish, the American Indian, the Italians, the Jews never had affirmative action.
Look at the LA riots. The Blacks rioted and burned up THEIR OWN HOMES AND BUSINESSES and still feel proud of it. They burned out people who had no problems with Blacks and who had lived and worked among them for years. Then, when insurance companies justifiably hiked the rates up for high destruction and high crime areas, they get pissed. Crime is higher in Black concentrated communities because they accept crime, accept devotional behavior and accept Blacks feeding on Blacks.
(Statistically, cities with no set Black community have lower racial crime rates. Port St. Lucie Florida, with NO racial sections, but a wide dispersion, has low crime and very, very low racial crime.)
Hey, I agree with all people being equal but I dislike it when people get in my face and demand that I treat them different because of their color and because someone, somewhere in my past MIGHT have owned slaves.
ALL races at one time or another in history, were enslaved! The Blacks want equality and then work like hell to act BLACK and separate. I’ve seen some Black women with the stupidest hairstyles and most obnoxiously long fingernails imaginable, that cannot be compared with anything in history. Sometimes I think the Black Mystique goes out of it’s way to separate the races, like the Black guys with dirty looking dread locks, numbers carved in their heads, or the best one of all, their hair all done up in short, nasty looking little pigtails.
I’ve been to various places around the globe and the American Black in general is not all that well thought of for their attitudes. Plus, they are the only ones who talk ‘Black’ (we be, he be, she be, they be). Not all, of course, but the majority. I used to joke that I could close my eyes and listen to people talk and pick out the Black one. I was correct.
I cannot do that in England or France.
If a person is Black, be BLACK and leave me the hell alone. I did not enslave anyone nor did I join the KKK, nor deny anyone civil rights, but I do hate Black gospel music. (Then, I dislike most gospel music.) Treat me like I treat you, don’t give me ‘da limp,’ don’t blast my windows out with your ‘homey’ music and I won’t blast yours with Country.
Years ago, in the deep south, it was not unusual to see WHITE woman with these thunderously fat legs. The fat rolled DOWN over the joints like a wrapper. These woman were jowlly, pasty in color and very, very fat. You don’t see them much anymore because their ‘subculture’ adapted. You don’t see the old WHITE guy in the baggy pants, enormous belly, suspenders, white shirt and hat strolling along, smoking a cigar and calling everyone ‘boy’ and ‘son’ either. THAT subculture adapted.
I live near citrus groves and 20+ years ago, it was mainly Blacks who harvested them. Not anymore. Blacks have gone to easier, higher paying jobs in general. I used to drive Black friends home and wondered why their homes looked like dumps on the outside but were immaculate on the inside. One explained to me that if the home looks poor and not worth much, neighbors will be less likely to break in and steal things!!
You can talk about everyone else in this world, except Blacks. Yet, they want total equality. Total equality means to stop acting separate
No.
The theory that humanity originated in Africa and dispersed throughout the world from that point is the more favored of the two general theories about human evolution and is discussed and taught in any decent school and scientific debate on the subject.
You can’t discuss the theory that Africans are somehow “closer” to apes on an evolutionary scale because there is enough evidence out there to disprove all of the racist implications inherent in trying place blacks or Africans next to monkeys and placing all the rest of the world out ahead of them in development. The social traits that have been documented comparing chimpanzees and orangs to humans have been shown to cross over all human societies, not just “African tribes.” The physical resemblances between the great apes and African people are limited to exactly a superficial resemblance in skin color. The lips of the great apes are quite thin (resembling Europeans or Asians much more than Africans). A point by point comparison of physical features between the great apes and humans have found that no human group is outside the range of variability that would put them closer to the great apes in appearance. Most of the assertions made in the old studies that tried to show how closely Africans resemble apes have been demolished by people who did statistical analysis of the actual features.
Humans split off from the pongid line so long ago that no human today could be considered any closer to apes than any other. Every group of humans has continued to develop at the same rate since the rise of Homo erectus or Homo habilis or wherever you want to draw the separating line.
To insist that somehow the NAACP is preventing serious scientific discussion is silly. The side you are presenting has already been documented to have been based on an attempt to treat blacks as inferiors and this does nothing to persuade us of the validity of your remarks.
(I would guess that there are African guerillas in Angola, the Congo basin and several other locations, but they look like black men because they are black men. None of them actually look like gorillas.)
BTW, do you have a citation for any group of people actually having vestigial tails?
Tom~
Link to mailbag question about related questions!!
And
Link to Cecil’s column on this!!
Always check the master first!
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Huzzah, Tom.
Sentinel, I haven’t seen much of your “work” here, but you must know by now that your audience is a well-heeled and educated sort. Now you can continue to spout poorly conceived rhetoric until the string coming out of your back frays and breaks off, I don’t begrudge you that. But I can’t even bring myself to read the amazing volume of subintellectual ejaculate that you’ve spewed in this thread alone. So your words are lost on me, and your point, whatever it is, goes unmade. You obviously have an agenda, please feel free to couch it in some coherent thought, and then I might get back to you. I think you’ll find that others here feel the same.
stoli
Well, blessed is just about everyone with a vested interest in the status quo, as far as I can tell.
The articles I recall reading concerning human tails were back in the 70s, complete with B&W photographs. Later on, I read articles concerning children of several races, including White, being born with tiny tails. I cannot find any source on the web to back this up. One might find it listed in JAMA.
I am aware of the dual evolution theory and the interbreeding to create the human species along with the environmental mutations created later on according to habitat. (Slanted eyes to protect them from cold, large butts for water storage, pale skin to absorb more sunlight, dark skin to resist strong sunlight, short, compact stature to conserve heat, additional fat to conserve heat and so on.)
The point is that the theory was presented and can no longer be discussed without someone crying racism. There are many theories which have been debunked that are still discussed, and some even corrected. People are still wondering about the many similarities pigs have to humans in their tissues and organs.
I can talk about any race in virtually any way I choose and not bring down the wrath of others like when I talk about Blacks.
Black organizations can and have suppressed many things concerning Blacks that they deem insulting. Disney’s ‘Song of the South’ is one, ‘Uncle Tom’s Cabin’ is another. There were attempts not too long ago to try and bring the old Amos and Andy films back on television for their wonderful comedy and historic reasons, but the NAACP threatened to sue, claiming that those films cast Black people in negative roles. Perhaps they did, but Amos and Andy were pioneers in comedy, classics today and a step in the progress of society.
We can see films casting every German in the role of killer concerning the holocaust and no one gives a hoot, even though it has been discovered that many, many Germans did not know of the death camps. We can see any form of Slave films depicting the White man as a cruel master and slave taker and no one says a word about it.
Amos and Andy are banned.
If you think you can have a general discussion concerning the differences between Black and Whites without someone getting pissed off, you’re nuts. There are many differences, both physical and social.
Like did you know that Whites have scores of bad names for Blacks but Blacks have under 20 for Whites? They have more derogatory names for each other than for Whites.
The predominate ‘butt’ on Blacks originally comes from the need to store water in arid climates. I tried to discuss this once on a Black discussion board and was basically told ‘Blacks ain’t got no big butts, racist!’ The family structure in many Black homes revolves around the grandmother and oldest daughter. Poppa is EXPECTED to leave or cat around. (Collage Sociology) When working with Black coworkers, this was apparent.
There are differences, but you got to watch it when you discuss them. Like, why can Black comedians today shred Whites but a White Comedian shredding Blacks is termed a racist? Black comics poke fun at our walk, the way we talk and sexual acts. If a White comic does the same to Blacks, it is NOT acceptable.
I worked on the edge of a large Black community and worked as a minority White in the business. I saw many differences in attitudes and the perception of things in general. Like, the Blacks I worked with were very religious, but expected some of their ministers to try to screw their women or to con them out of money. One told me about the prayer line in her church. One line for $20, one line for $10 and one line for $5.
Since we dealt with people of all types, I observed Black clients being treated by the Black staff much better than the White clients were and any pointing this out brought cries of racism and bigotry. Discussions of slavery got to be annoying and when I pointed out that all people in the world had been slaves at one time or another, it was ignored.
After working for a number of years in close contact with Blacks, I realized that the majority of their problems were brought on by themselves. Any discussion of this was met with hostility and denial.
My ‘audience’ can be a ‘well heeled educated sort’ all it wants but that does not mean they have the common sense to see what is often right under their noses. They do have a marked propensity to select one error out of a diatribe and fixate on that, ignoring everything else as not important. Having been in the PIT before I am well aquainted with the ‘well heeled’ tendency to twist things around while ignoring the obvious or the main point.
In this case, I have the advantage, having experieneced working in a reverse minority and having worked in a large Black community.
Try fixating on the rest of the post instead of what you perceived as an error.
Some mornings, it’s just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Oh, I dunno. Somehow I suspect black women (and Hispanic and Asian and…) look exactly the way they’re ALWAYS looked.
Maybe, just maybe, some eyes and hearts have gotten clearer, enough to see the beauty that was always there.
Better looking than Eartha Kitt and Dorothy Dandridge, Cecily Tyson, and Dihann (sp?) Carroll and…well, all of the gorgeous, stunning women of color (“stars” and real life) who fought so hard for so long?
Maybe there IS hope, when recognition from a bigot, no matter how ineptly expressed, states awareness and homage to the excellence that has always been there.
Veb