Are creationists made by their own self image?

Great Debates
1

I was reading the Salon Article about the new Creationist Museum that opened recently. For a lark read the editors choice letters written by subscribers then I came across this page and read something that got me thinking.

[Quote=chazzazz (from the letters page)]

If you look at the history of rational thought, the ideas that have caused the most angst are the one’s that tell us we are not the, um, crown of creation. Remember that the church locked up Galileo for the last few years of his life because he could prove the earth (and by extension, man) was not the center of the universe.

There is a certain mind set that just can’t accept our insignificance in the grand scheme of things. Why that mind set is so prevelant in MY country is beyond me. But it saddens and disappoints me.
[/QUOTE]

It’s that last Question that got me thinking. Bear with me on this… I’m just wrapping my head around an idea and wanty to runn it by you folks.

First it seems that largest percentage of people (not the only.. mind you) who are young Earth Creationists are from The United States.

In the United States there is a culture of “Specialness”. You hear phrases Greatest Democracy, most powerful Nation on Earth, leader of the free world greatest minds, most powerful culture My country wrong or right.. etc etc.

There are, of course degrees, of this and The large majority of Americans are not wild eyed, flag waving, self important nuts. But there is a culture of strong pride in the country and its symbols.

Anyway, it seems that in the same area you find the most vocal God fearin’ anti Evoltion folk, you also find the most vocal Partriotic folk too.

Could there be something to the idea that there may be a connection to Uber patriotism and a dislike or fear of concepts of Evolution due to a diminished sense of worth? Just a thought…

2

Can’t it just be that the United States has pretty bad public education systems all over the place?

By the way, I think you’ll find places that are much more hostile to the idea that we evolved from the same ancestors as apes than the USA.

3

I could see how belief in self-realisation/determination and freemarket entrepreneurship in the material realm could lend itself to a suitably anthropocentric supernatural belief system - but don’t most world religions consider human beings as pretty special and superior?

Could be simply that America’s successful superpower status just makes adherents of the majority religion that much more convinced that their religion is infallible, like their economic model…

4

[QUOTE=kingpengvin]
First it seems that largest percentage of people (not the only.. mind you) who are young Earth Creationists are from The United States.
[/QUOTE]

This I would like to see support for, I don’t believe it to be true.

The arrogance of the US, is because of what we can do, and the rest of the world can not, we are the only superpower, we are the only country who could have put a end to the world wars, and leader of the free world. If you want to believe that’s from God or not is your issue.

5

[QUOTE=kingpengvin]
First it seems that largest percentage of people (not the only… mind you) who are young Earth Creationists are from The United States.

[QUOTE]
Yes, but there are other countries with equally stupid fundamentalists of other religions.

6

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
This I would like to see support for, I don’t believe it to be true.
[/QUOTE]
How’s about you find a country where it’s stronger.

7

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
<snip>we are the only country who could have put a end to the world wars<snip>
[/QUOTE]
No, I reckon Germany could have the second go round.

8

[QUOTE=jjimm]
How’s about you find a country where it’s stronger.
[/QUOTE]

Afghanistan.

9

[QUOTE=jjimm]
How’s about you find a country where it’s stronger.
[/QUOTE]

Iran? Probably lots of places with little access to education in Africa, like maybe Congo. Tibet? (I know, I know, not a country).

What do the Chinese think, anyway? Has anyone polled them to see whether they think we evolved in the same manner as apes?

You know, the more I think about it, the more I doubt that even the majority of countries could find a 50% consensus among their people that God(s) didn’t create man in his current form within the last 6,000 years.

10

[QUOTE=Mosier]
You know, the more I think about it, the more I doubt that even the majority of countries could find a 50% consensus among their people that God(s) didn’t create man in his current form within the last 6,000 years.
[/QUOTE]
Isn’t that mainly a Christian thing, though? Amend it to “a god/gods didn’t create man as opposed to evolution” and i’d probably be with you.

11

Hang about: the words are specifically “young Earth Creationists”, being those to which kanicbird objects.

As a thread earlier attests, we’ve got a 30% figure on the US being Biblical literalists. Somewhat less being yECs, but probably a significant minority.

12

jjimm it is kingpengvin who makes the unsupported claim:

[QUOTE=kingpengvin]
First it seems that largest percentage of people (not the only.. mind you) who are young Earth Creationists are from The United States.
[/QUOTE]

It is up to kingpeng to support it, not me to prove him wrong. Without this point, which is his first, his theory falls apart.

[QUOTE=jjimm]
we’ve got a 30% figure on the US being Biblical literalists. Somewhat less being yECs, but probably a significant minority.
[/QUOTE]

There are many ways to reconcile being a biblical literalist w/o being a YEC, but even if I give in to the 30% figure this is a minority of the US population, wile the OP makes it sound like the YEC are in the majority.

13

[QUOTE=jjimm]
How’s about you find a country where it’s stronger.
[/QUOTE]

On the basis of last year’s Science paper by Miller, Scott and Okamoto reviewing the public acceptance of evolution in different Western countries, possibly Turkey. Though it’s unclear exactly how the original polling questions were phrased.

14

[QUOTE=kanicbird]
This I would like to see support for, I don’t believe it to be true.
[/QUOTE]

The master speaks:

15

Thanks Mandarax, I’ll take that as support that I am correct, and the OP’s first point falls to a ugly death.

16

… Am I missing something? Doesn’t Mandarax’s quote of *Cecil ** suggest that Americans are only second largest percentage? And I would imagine that the non-evolution-believers in the U.S. would be more likely to identify themselves as Y.E.C.s than those in Turkey. I’m not entirely sure it’s supportive of your point, kanicbird, and it certainly doesn’t seem to make the point “fall to an ugly death”.

*Do we bold Cecil’s name?

17

Sorry Been away for a while.

On further reading I would say that Yes Turkey seems to have quite the thriving creationist movement. That even has some political backing.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15857761/

SO I concede that The US doesn’t have the the largest percentage of those who do not believe in Evolution. (Turkey 75% reject compared to the US where 39% outright reject and 21% are unsure)

However, number wise is a different story (Turkey’s population is 72 753 000 with 54 564 750 (75%) disbelieving in Evolution while The United States population of 301,139,947 has 117 444 579 (39%) who disbelieve.) Still I will admit that of those people there is no breakdown of why they reject so they may not all be Young Earth creationists so I can’t quantify that.

That is a hell of a lot of people that reject Evolution So I think my question still stands on the volume of disbelievers.

I can see why a country with a strong religious bent can have that high a percentage of population not believing. Still, how can you account for the fact the next highest percentage is in a secular nation with a strong scientific/technologically advanced community with plenty of educational resources available?

What is the connection, that these two countries might have, to account for the large number of people who reject what is basically a scientific fact?

18

What are the statistics of people like me who reject both creation and evolution?

I am not the only one who does.

You can’t ask if someone believes in evolution and getting a no, automatically think they believe in creation.

19

[QUOTE=kingpengvin]
In the United States there is a culture of “Specialness”. You hear phrases Greatest Democracy, most powerful Nation on Earth, leader of the free world greatest minds, most powerful culture My country wrong or right.. etc etc.
[/QUOTE]
But evolution versus creation applies to all humans, not just Americans. I’m not seeing the connection between a belief that Americans are special among humans and a belief that humans are special among animals.

Belief in creationism springs from American religiosity, not American patriotism. Americans are more religious than almost any other Western country, partly because of our history as a haven for religious dissenters (who naturally cared more passionately about their religion than most people), and partly because we’ve never had an established church, which forced denominations to compete and proselytize for members.

It’s true that poor science education plays a part, but that’s more a consequence than a cause–school boards play down and dumb down evolution out of fear of offending the plurality of true believers.

20

[QUOTE=lekatt]
What are the statistics of people like me who reject both creation and evolution?

I am not the only one who does.
[/QUOTE]
I know I’m going to regret asking this… what do you believe in?