I, in an unethical way, earned the right to be an eagle scout. I lied, cheated and stole to earn some of the required merit badges though. I chose to quietly walk away from Scouting instead of accepting the rewards.
I think you would make a great CEO if it weren’t for that walking away bit.
You seem kind of unduly concerned about downplaying the Eagle award- between myself and WordMan, you have two comments from both sides of the job interview table pointing out that they’re indeed highly valued, and yet you persist in saying that it’s just equivalent to riding a Harley or playing high school football or whatever.
It’s unlikely to get you the job, even if you apply for a job at the BSA home office itself (been there, done that), but people do notice well outside the scope of other extra-curriculars. And the sheer number of famous politicians, military leaders and business leaders who are Eagle Scouts has to mean something.
And finally, not that it’s a huge deal, but if you are an Eagle Scout and enlist in the military, you get an automatic step in rank on enlistment. That’s worth something, and high school quarterbacks, harley riders or cheerleaders don’t get it.
It really depends on the role you are recruiting for. Yes, the vast majority of jobs can be approached the way you describe: the “Other Interests or Achievements” section can be nice conversation*.
In my examples, management consulting and small-company leadership require people with demonstrated leadership skills, the ability to step into a complex culture and win over personalities, engage in intense, on-the-fly problem solving and build teamwork and execute large, complex initiatives. I am sure you see the connection to experiences like Scouting and the military.
*However, do not fuck with me and claim “jazz” or something esoteric without being able to back up your shit. I hate that.
Thank You, that was helpful. It confirms a lot of my observations as well.
Did you read the forum name? It is In My Humble Opinion. This is mine.
I’ll leave it to you to count the number of posters who are impressed by it than those who aren’t.
Actually, I should clarify… I am impressed by it. It shows that someone who went down this path excelled to the max. As did the person who became the captain of the soccer team, or the winner of the state debate match, or the person who volunteered at the hospital for 5 summers, or…
There are many paths one may take and Eagle Scout is just one. It isn’t any better or worse than any others that require effort and commitment.
This sounds very old school. If you’re at IBM or Boeing or Raytheon, maybe an Eagle Scout or a military man might help, but a lot of that is just knowing people in Government who hold the purse strings. The most successful modern companies don’t have military people involved in starting or building the company or even running it after it matures. They’re too rigid and regimented for what makes a modern company succeed. Hell, a lot of guys who started today’s biggest companies didn’t even finish college. They quit. An Eagle Scout or Military General wouldn’t want Mark Zuckerberg or Steve Jobs anywhere near their team.
I worked for a startup that is still in business when it began in the early 2000’s. Our CEO bought into the “Hire ex-military guys” philosophy, which seems noble, but for a nimble, entreprenurial company that is constantly innovating, it is horrible in practice. These guys follow orders, they don’t innovate. In fact, any innovative instincts are drilled out of them in Boot Camp and in the field. They have to be told everything. All of the managers grew to hate the policy and felt hampered by having to hire military vets and finally the CEO abandoned the policy.
There are a few large companies (and more small ones) where top-down rigid management is desireable, but they’re becoming relics of a time gone by.
Don’t know if that is directed at me or the resume holder, but I saw the Preservation Hall Jazz band in New Orleans when I was 12 and never looked back. I played for many years and been to countless festivals (I’ve be inactive recently… damn kids getting in the way) but I can back up my shit (or at least enough to carry on a conversation at an interview to determine if the interviewee is blowing smoke or not).
Oh, and the gay and lesbian thing was a huge problem with them. Thinking that a large percentage of your workforce were perverts (think 10-12 years ago) and mentally defective didn’t make for good leaders.
There is a notable difference in the Eagle Scouts that I think I have observed. I don’t know anything about their philosophy but there seems to be a loyalty to purpose mentality that stands out about them. They seem to put a premium on loyalty.
And again, this is about individual’s opinions. One I personally don’t share.
No way directed at you; very sorry if anything like that came across. Kids try to punch above their weight and list shit they can’t really talk to. If I sense it is going on, I will leave it at “who are your favorite artists?” or something like that and let them hang themselves. I in no way seek to embarrass them - to me, a dick move - but note that the candidate is trying too hard in my notes.
Lamar, our milages vary; totally cool. I speak from my experience, as do you. Weird on anonymous messageboards, but there ya go. I have a good friend with the Marines on his resume. It was specifically why he was sought out by a top private equity firm to take a leadership role in a company they owned. When I am networking with other private equity contacts to support my friend’s next move, his experience is focused on and discussed. I have another good PE friend who is a West Point grad and cites it as essential to his candidacy at the firm.
I would have to do some research, but I believe military folk live quite comfortably within Silicon Valley. Someone using “ex-military” as a proxy for conservative cultural values and anti-gay-minded bureaucrats is simply poor management. I know of many ex-military colleagues who are wonderfully innovative and inclusive. Folks who attained the rank of Captain, or led a platoon for a couple of years aren’t tools. We are painting with a broad brush, and Eagle Scouts are a notch or two below, but this is all about how an old-school, structured experiences affects candidacy.
To be clear, I have no deep love for the military and am a coastal librul. I am reflecting on what I see happening and have experienced.
Many, but by no means all, Academy guys are different. They are taught history and tactics and are expected to use their education to make good decisions in the heat of battle. Sometimes just making a decision and sticking with it is very useful in business. Better than dithering.
There are also a lot of legacy guys (sons and daughters of military brass) who coast through and are useless and lazy. They are the worst.
No offense taken at all… just making conversation 
Now if I responded that my band leader was friends with Don Ellis and I had a chance to perform a couple of his original compositions, would I get through the interview? Never got to meet him, but I did play with Maynard Ferguson once. (can you guess what I played and how much of an old fart I am)
I think you may see people and correctly assess that they were Boy Scouts, and earned the rank of Eagle Scout.
But I bet there are lots of Eagle Scouts you never pick out.
I earned my Eagle. It comes out in one of two ways:
- Someone finds out that I still camp regularly, which leads to a Boy Scout question followed by Eagle.
- I am the guy who still embraces Be Prepared. So at the tech trade show, when one of my team members blisters working the aisles - I am the guy with a small first aid kit in his laptop bag. That leads to a joke, and someone usually drops a comment about Scouting, which again leads to the follow-on about earning the Eagle.
Its not on my resume, but my son has it on his since he is just starting out looking for internships while in college.
Wow, you sure would. Fun! No clue as to the Ferguson song, but would love to hear what it was.
I am not trying to trick the person or be cute. But if they say they like jazz piano and can’t name any players they like, or they can’t frame which genres they like - as you know, big difference between big band, small combo, fusion, etc. - then I notice. If someone takes the time to list something on their resume, they should be able to speak to it. Nothing more complex than that.
Upon reflection, I don’t like the wording of this. I have a deep respect for people who serve. I simply did not start off with a bias towards them as candidates for the roles I was recruiting for, but have come to feel the opposite. Again, everyone’s mileage can vary based on a variety of factors.
Having been an Eagle Scout (with three palms*) in 1966, I know that some of us don’t fit your pattern. My oldest friend was also an ES at the same time (same troop), and he too had abandoned the Merit Badge mindset by his late teens. We never stopped camping together, though, still have a week-long camp every summer with wives and families, and in terms of “outdoorsy-ness” we’re definitely still “a couple of Boy Scouts” and proud of it.
- at the time, Three Palms indicated a scout who had earned 15 merit badges more than the required 24. In full regalia I looked like a Christmas Tree. A smug, prissy one, in my case. I was an insufferable little prick.
I wouldn't expect that all of the Eagle Scouts would carry the mindset forward I was thinking more of a significant percentage like maybe 30% or so.
My curiosity about this stems from a fantasy project I have been playing with for some time now that looks at how accomplishment and recognition can play a part in shaping our identitities, I am always looking for real life examples that might apply.