In response to this post.
I have to admit, I cannot remember anything in any of the films which were to my mind “misogynistic”… unless you count being an action hero misogynistic on its own.
Well, Han was kind of rude and condescending to Leia…
But then, he was equally rude and condescending to everyone else, too, so that hardly counts.
There was pretty much one woman in the entirety of the original Star Wars trilogy. Solo could have been a complete bastard to Leia the entire time and we still wouldn’t know if he were a misogynist.
Indiana Jones is actually a tad less sexist than could be justified by the time period. It was a highly sexist era. Jones condescends some, but generally shows respect and tries to behave with chivalry – the good kind, even by today’s standards. He’s a pretty good bloke, just a product of his times.
(Were he actually to take advantage of the coeds in his classes who make advances toward him, he’d be lower than poop. But he doesn’t. Smart!)
I had to look up misogynist just to make sure I wasn’t getting the definition wrong. Solo and Jones aren’t even close to being misogynist.
“Many Bothans died to bring us this information.”
“Not now, sweetheart; the men are talking.”
Agreed, showing bad manners, a selfish streak, an obsessive work ethic, or narcissistic tendencies does not automatically make you a misogynist. And in both cases, the sample set of women is far too small to make a judgment so definitive.
They treat objects like women, man.
Cocksure womanizers aren’t misogynists. Or if they are, a lot of women sure crush hard for misogynists.
Although there’s still those disturbing questions about him and Marion.
I looked up the script for A New Hope. There’s really not all that much dialog between Han and Leia, but here’s a few select quotes:
HAN
(pointing to Luke)
He's the brains, sweetheart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HAN
Absolutely, Your Worship. Look, I
had everything under control until
you led us down here. You know, it's
not going to take them long to figure
out what happened to us.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HAN
If we can just avoid any more female
advice, we ought to be able to get
out of here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
HAN
Look, Your Worshipfulness, let's get
one thing straight! I take orders
from one person! Me!
LEIA
It's a wonder you're still alive.
(looking at Chewie)
Will somebody get this big walking
carpet out of my way?
Han watches her start away. He looks at Luke.
HAN
No reward is worth this.
That would probably be the line getting people’s panties in a twist. I’d hoped there’d be a previous line where Leia explicitly referred to herself as female or her idea as female intuition, but no such luck. It does seem out of nowhere to think the problem is because she’s female and not because she’s royalty with no experience. The rest of his lines work for the royal-pain-in-the-ass interpretation, but this one doesn’t.
I think they’re both supposed to be taken as a little misogynist. They’re mans men in macho professions (smuggling and archaeology*), not particularly used to dealing with woman outside of romantic encounters. Than they’re confronted with strong competent woman and act overly aggressive until the woman prove themselves, at which point they fall in love (or find out they’re really Nazis and watch them fall into a giant chasm).
I’d guess this is on purpose. Both Star Wars and Indie were takes of movie serials made in the 30’s, where the woman were usually fainting damsels in distress. So Lucas has his protagonist act like those heroes, but they’re confronted with more modern, capable woman and amusing verbal sparring ensues.
*(archaeology circa 1940, that is.)
I agree with this. I didn’t mean the statement as a complaint nor a slam on these Harrison Ford characters in the other thread. Just, as said, it’s a character which no longer exists in cinema. Han Solo and Indiana Jones were probably the last hurrah for the type.
But that becomes problematic for any new films because they’re going to need to revise the character in accordance with modern day sensibilities and that fundamentally changes Han Solo into an entirely different character. He wasn’t a well-rounded, complex man. He was a copy-paste of a known, concrete archetype from noir and two-bit serials put into a space ship. Harrison Ford did a good job of making that character come off as someone likable, rather than as Flash Gordon! HERO FROM SPAAAAAACE, but there’s still the character on the page, who is in fact Flash Gordon! HERO FROM SPAAAAAACE. And writing him as something other than that becomes not Han Solo.
By all rights, Marion Ravenswood should have punched Indiana Jones’s lights out when she met him again in Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull instead of falling in love with him again. He had abandoned her twice, the second time leaving her pregnant. He’s a jerk.
She was a child, Little Nemo! It was wrong and you knew it!
Crystal Skull is not Indiana Jones. Its fanfiction. I will not accept otherwise.
So one statement. Mwde while under fire. From a catty Royal and stormtroopers.
If there’s anything redemptive at all about that movie, it’s that they brought Marion back. Everything else about it sucked decaying mummy balls.
Mind you, if my previous experience with women had been being trapped in a crashing plane/evil Indian temple with Screaming Willie I’d probably be misogynistic too. God, how I hated that character.
Thank you for saying you hate the character. So many people dump on Kate Capshaw for this role but the truth is she gave an excellent performance based on how the character was written and how the director and producer wanted the character to be played.
The character has actually grown on me over the years and I’ve come to enjoy how completely mismatched Indy and Willie are, but I can completely appreciate how so many people dislike the character (since I used to be one of those people) …just as long as the blame isn’t placed on Capshaw.
Complaining about Indiana Jones “mansplaining” things is stupid. He’s a schoolteacher, “mansplaining” things is his job!
I usually have a decent eye for “whooshes”, but I’m not sure here.
Just in case you’re serious, teaching and mansplaining are vastly different.