First, I am not a lawyer, nor do I expect any of you to be, and I also respect that there are a lot of people asking legal advice, but this one I haven’t seen, so here it is.
I was parked illegally after having just turned a corner, when an officer came around the corner and got on his cruiser-mounted PA system and asked me to move the car. I asked the officers if I couldn’t just leave it there for a moment while I ran inside the building, just one minute.
At this point the officer said to me “Since you’re smarting off to me, I’m giving you a ticket. You turned illegally on red, there is a no turn on red sign posted right there.”
The question isn’t whether I actually committed the infraction, nor is it whether I “smarted off” to the officer.
He originally wanted me to move the car, then upon the perception of my insolence, he decided to give me a ticket for another infraction completely unrelated to the parking issue.
He said “Since you smarted off, I’m giving you a ticket…”
That seems to me to be a punishment for speaking my mind to the officer, not for the actual infraction, which is a violation of my rights to free speech under the First Amendment.
Am I way off base?
Is there any known case law pertaining to this issue? ( I seem to remember someone in NJ getting a ticket for disorderly conduct tossed which he received for flipping off a cop )
Does anyone know how I would go about researching the case law?
Do I need the ACLU? (just kidding)
How will you prove to the US Supreme Court that the law officer gave you a ticket for “mouthing off” and not for the illegal turn on red? Do you have any witnesses?
The cop has the right to give you the ticket even if you were being completely compliant and meek. If the cop had chosen not to give you a ticket, that’s his right. But it’s not yours to expect him not to, or to demand he not change his mind about giving it to you.
No, your rights have not been violated as I see it. The ticket was for the illegal turn, correct? Did you make said illegal turn? I’m assuming nowhere on the ticket is the offense listed as “smarting off.” The difference is he was going to let the offense slide and then changed his mind.
First of all, what First Amendment right? You were not given a ticket for mouthing off, but for (by your own admission) parking illegally. The case you cite concerned a person flipping off a cop, not for parking illegally…I don’t see a parallel.
The cop was “punishing” you for the parking infraction, nothing more. How do you think you would argue that point in court?
Sounds like we need a hidden camera investigation from 20/20 Downtown. I’ll call Diane Sawyer…
And speaking as a Criminology student (with focus on the courts) - your rights have definitely not been violated. Even the ACLU wouldn’t take your case. Maybe try PETA (kidding!).
I do believe(again I am 16 years of age) that somewhere in the Constitution, there is something about “fighting words.” Under this section, it is stated that you may be penalized for mouthing off to an officer.
Also, you say he is wrong for giving you the ticket for mouthing off. Well, many cops let people off instead of giving him or her a ticket. Well, should the officer get in trouble for not giving the ticket?
Here is some advice, don’t turn on red when you shouldn’t! And don’t park illegally!
Thanks,
The cop saw you do something illegal, but had decided to give you a break and just tell you to move on. But you, having temporarily taken leave of your senses, asked for more. The cop took offense and decided not to give you a break after all.
Actually, the notion of “fighting words” is defined in one of the many Supreme Court cases over the last 150 years that shaped the speech part of the First Amendment. We went from “I know it when I see it,” to “prurient interest” to “clear and present danger” and so on.
Although “fighting words” IIRC wouldn’t apply in this case - it’d apply more to a situation where someone invokes a riot with a agitative speech.
The cop was going to let you slide on an infraction - turning right on red. It’s a posted sign and you violated it. Unless you can prove you didn’t. What changed his mind was your attitude. He told you to move your car, you argued back. Now I don’t know what your tone was - were you polite or rude or loud but not meaning to be rude? Doesn’t matter, the cop felt you were being insolent. It was his discretion to not cite you, so he revoked that discretion.
However, I’m wondering why he didn’t write you up for the parking. Instead of taking that issue, he picked turning right on red. So maybe you weren’t parked illegally? Or did he give you both?
I wondered that too. I used to drive a truck OTR. Attitude, attitude, attitude! Cops (whether or not you agree with the power vested in them by The System) are vested with the power to enforce laws. Period. It is amazing how a polite deferential attitude can avert the usage of such power. Also amazing how being mouthy can get you a ticket which the cop is fully entitled to give you at his or her discretion. The “I’ll only be in there a minute” excuse is a pretty lame one. You need to be a little more creative than that, Ivar!