Are noserings and tattoos unprofessional?

Great Debates
21

Every time this kind of subject comes up I am always shocked to see how naive many people can be. It may be nice to live in a world where only our intellectual merits will be judged but that is never going to happen.

The bottom line is appearance (not good looks) is probably the single largest factor in making a favorable impression. It implies competence, confidence, and ability. To me, if this individual was as intelligent, personable, and capable, as has been implied then they would have realized the obvious fact that the tattoos and nose-ring were not going to be appropriate in an interview. The fact that this person did not grasp such a common sense factor reflects very poorly on their social abilities and therefore would most likely not be a good fit within most environments.

That said, there are always exceptions to this and I am speaking in general terms.

I consider myself a good example. For a living, I sell software solutions to banks. The typical software deal is over 1 million dollars in licensing, hardware, and professional services. Needless to say, to win this type of business I must be be an expert on the banking industry, my products, my competitors, my potential client’s issues, market trends, contract negotiations, etc. In addition, even the most subtle detail such as appearance can speak more than a 70-slide PowerPoint presentation. In spite of my ability in all of these things, if I showed up for a first meeting with tattoos or a pierced nose I would never, ever be taken seriously. No one would care if I had the best solution.

Of course, when they sign the contract they have no idea that under my Brooks Brother’s dress shirt are two shiny nipple rings and that beneath my suit trousers is a big honkin’ Prince Albert piercing. :smiley:

MeanJoe

22

Um… how the hell did THAT happen? :mad:

I swear I only hit submit once.

23

MeanJoe:

The tattoos aren’t coming off; perhaps neither can the nose-ring and you’re right, there are certain professions in which the status quo, must be adhered to. I’m not questioned that, I am questioning in THIS instance, whether Sampiro was being fair and if this was the type of profession that allowed a certain level of independence.

Sampiro says he’s an “outed” gay. According to your standards of common sense and ‘reality’, Sampiro’s openess should reflect poorly on his social abilities…because if we’re not going to be naive here, begin an open Gay person is not smart, if one wants to “fit” in a corporate environment. Excuse the blanket statement…

Remember Sampiro OP seems to ask if in any job interview, would having tattoos and a nosering be unprofessional. I think the answer has to be…it depends.

24

Relic.

Is there a chance that your interviewing criteria involved looking for somebody who was a self-starter, innovative, forward-thinking, able to make decisions on her own and take some risks? If so, sounds like the tattoos and nosering should have worked in her favor. On the other hand, if you were interviewing for your basic low-energy personality-free office drone, she might not have been such a good fit.

slight hijack: I work with a guy who occasionally wears a Superman tie. The placement of Superman’s face on the tie is such that, when the guy uses a diamond stud tietack, it’s working as a nose stud for Superman… very cool.

25

If the job was being a register clerk in Sam Goody’s, fine, whatever. If it’s in an average office, no way. Part of asking for a job is marketing yourself as being someone who can fit in with the environment.

26

MeanJoe A question, lets say that you were considered by those who know, to be THE BEST in the world. I mean, your crap smells like Roses and everything you touch is gold. Would you then be considered a ‘quirky’ genius, or would you still not be taken seriously?

A what point, does performance trump apperance?

27

I’m not the one you asked the question of, but in my observation, almost never if you are dealing with anything regarding sales or marketing, or other interaction with the public (record store and other retail establishments excepted).

If it’s a relatively “closed” environment, like a bunch of programmers, graphic artists or filmmakers working basically with each other, for example, it’s of less importance. But even in that situation, if someone comes to an interview flaunting that they don’t care what you think, that’s a possible sign of an arrogant employee that won’t listen to you later, either.

If there’s a choice between being too conservative or not, your best chances are to be more conservative at the interview; you can always loosen up later.

If the criterion is

that should be made apparent through the content of the resume and interview.

28

At some point after you’ve been hired.

29

Funny, this came up… I just hired a guy with a nosering and another one with dreadlocks. I have not asked either of them to alter their appearance in any way.

First, this is a very conservative company. There is a dress code; however, jewelry and hair styles are not addressed in the dress code. The spirit of the dress code, which is “business casual” is to keep people dressed comfortably (it’s mighty hot down he-ah) without looking like they are going to a backyard barbecue. The idea is to overall, dress professionally. That said…

The nose ring issue came up. I did not bring it up. The candidate did not bring it up. When he came in as a finalist for a group interview, one of my staff brought it up. I explained that there is nothing in writing, vis a vis formal policies, that makes the nose ring a no no. I do not believe in unwritten rules. (When they write 'em down, then I’ll conform.) This person was hired to be a copywriter and editor. He has zero contact with our customers, the general public and only phone contact with clients. He is very well qualified, articulate, experienced and an outstanding writer and editor. Same story with Dreadlock Guy.

I hired him because he was the best candidate who demonstrated he could do the job well. I gave him no hassle about whatever he wants to pierce. I did warn him that other, more conservative managers may say something to him or go to HR about him. I asked him to bring those issues directly to me and I will defend his right to wear whatever jewelry he wants. I did ask him to remove the nose ring (not the three earrings) if he has a meeting scheduled with a client (which will happen occasionally).

He told us he wore the nose ring to the intervew to be honest and up front – it’s a part of his personality and he wanted me to know from the start, that this is part of the whole package. He also said if it came down to either he takes the nose ring out or he doesn’t get the job, he’d be happy to remove it. That was enough for me. Note he was dressed in a jacket and tie, nice shoes, pressed pants. In fact, he was the most professionally dressed of all the candidates I interviewed (9 people, about half men, half women) I viewed wearing a nose ring to an interview as act of courage – this is a person who is not afraid to stand up and be noticed for who he is. That is the kind of guy I need to send in to my clients to argue or defend an advertising concept, a design, a campaign, whatever. It also means he’s a risk-taker, because it really was a gamble. I could have been one of those conservative, stuffy managers who saw the nose ring, jumped to conclusions, made sweeping generalizations and never saw the guy again. Instead, I tried to see past the nose ring to the qualifications and found myself an outstanding addition to my team.

I manage a group of artists and writers. We are the company’s creative team and are therefore, not only are we considered just corporate background noise, but are also expected to behave somewhat eccentrically. Other managers ask me all the time, “How do you do it? You have an award winning team, but artsy types are so difficult to manage!” (Which is extremely offensive to me since I’m one of those “difficult, sensitive” writers!)

I allow them to express themselves and show their personalities, through their hairstyles, choices of jewelry, clothing and by decorating their cubicles any way they want to. I do not get all hung up on the (written down) rules and enforce the policies with an iron fist. In return, my staff is responsible, hard working, and a truly self-directed work team. They do a great job because I give them the freedom and flexibility and therefore, I am creating and maintaining a creative work environment. They all get paid to be as creative as possible. If letting one guy keep his nose ring helps my department win more awards for our advertising campaigns… then I just don’t care where he keeps his jewelry.

30

My gayness is not obvious, though- I’m just the occasionally nellie occasionally macho guy who looks disarmingly like Burl Ives until I choose to share the fact that “you know, speaking of critical thinking in education, I’d really like to make Ricky Martin’s entire body a playground for my tongue”. Noserings and tattoos are immediately obvious, and in this particular job she’ll deal with quite a few older people doing genealogical research and quite a few rich old bluehairs seeking repositories for their family treasures.

My bottom line is this: I won’t withhold my vote for her appointment if she is the best qualified, BUT if I happen to like another candidate (we’re not finished interviewing) equally well the nosering could cause me to cast my vote the other way. Either way, when she gets here she’ll need to be advised that sometimes she’ll need to lose the sinus jewelry.

31

Sampiro:

That’s what you think. I’m not trying to beat up on you, but I’ve known a few gay people in my life, who seem surprised upon coming out, that we already knew they were gay…we just didn’t care and it was their business anyway.

One question, while you don’t “look gay”, if a candidate that did, applied, would you hire him? Would his obvious “gayness” prevent him from dealing with quite a few older people doing genealogical research and quite a few rich old bluehairs seeking repositories for their family treasures?

32

Personal appearance is legitimate aspect of both the hiring process and the daily work environment. Tattoos, piercing, scarring, and tongue splitting can have a negative effect on your ability to get hired. There is no limit to the changes in appearance you can personally make so I won’t name every combination. It also depends on the business.

To say that you have to ignore someone’s appearance in deference to his or her skill is a challenge to name the most bizarre look imaginable. How about someone wearing a 1 lb padlock in their ear (seen it). Maybe a leather hood with spikes (seen it). Needles sticking out everywhere (seen it)…

IMHO I believe most people who show up (looking as was described) know what is considered a professional appearance and are deliberately challenging those standards.

FWIW, I work with people who have visible tattoos and in some cases, eyebrow rings. It is acceptable at the level they are at but it will eventually harm them if they want to move up the ladder. I have yet to see a nose ring.

33

This is kind of funny. When I interviewed for the job I have now, I left my tongue ring in (it’s not obvious, I don’t play with it, and my own family didn’t notice it for months), and did absolutely nothing about the fact that I have purple and blonde striped hair. I teach programming at college level, meaning I’m in contact with ‘the public’ on a regular basis. I have had red hair with pink stripes since I’ve been here, and it has always been seen as the non-issue it is. The qualifications for this position involved my knowledge of computer programming, networking, and hardware design, not what kind of jewelry I wear or what color my hair is, so I went into the interview as myself, quite prepared to demonstrate my skills and quite prepared to walk out the door if they were hiring on some other basis.

Since then I have become the youngest department leader we have, I’m a facutly advisor, I do network administration, I have been the faculty representative (tongue ring, purple striped hair and all) at two commencement ceremonies, the department representative to the state board of education and the co-author of two degree granting courses of study.

And I’d still have walked out the door if anything other than my ability mattered to my boss.

34

Awkward wording, perhaps: I don’t mean “you can’t tell that I’m gay” so much as I mean “You can’t tell that on the rare occasion I have a sexual partner said sexual partner happens to be a male”. You can be Liberace’s lovechild with Paul Lynde and all it means is that you’re not aggressively masculine; since technically “acts” are homosexual rather than people, you’re not “gay” until you say you are or you’re caught in a compromising position in the breakroom with the guy who waters the flowers, thus it’s not a workplace issue.

However, somebody with a nosering and tattoos is clearly “counter-culture” since they deliberately make an issue of their unwillingness to conform. I don’t care if when they go home at the end of the day it’s to a Winnebago filled with circus freaks tripping on Ecstacy and making pornographic Shrinky-Dinks over a bubbling cauldron- I’m a complete believer in freedom of belief/expression in so far as the law allows off-work, but at work it must be reasonably curtailed. I walk around my house in my boxer-briefs and undershirt all the time, but my employer would fire me in a heartbeat for coming to work that way and they’d be within their rights.

35

So you would avoid hiring the greatest sales rep ever, someone who would bring in lots of $$$$$$$ to your company, if his/her appearance wasn’t up to your professional standard? That’s a dumb way to run a business.

I’ll say it again, appearance should only matter when it affects business (which it frequestly does).

36

Your example of sales rep doesn’t work. If you showed up to a client wearing dirty clothes and expected them to take you seriously you’re nuts. You would never get to prove you are the “worlds greatest sales rep”

Just run it out to the ridiculous and see how it looks. What if someone drilled a hole in their forehead and mounted a faucet spout. Looks matter in all situations. The TYPE of look is dependent on the situation.

I think we are actually arguing the same point except for our personal expectations.

Every business I have worked at (from high school on) have had some kind of dress code, including hair style and jewelry.

37

If your target clientele is a group in which body mutilation is accepted, then fine. However, if it’s a more conservative audience, I do not think the person would be the greatest sales rep ever. I would not hire that person based on my judgement that he would not do well with my clientele. Of course, if I were selling body jewelry, tatoo designs, or some such thing, it would be a different story. That’s the thing about sales; you have to know your target client. If the rep is going to disgust the potential client at first sight, then he is not going to do well.

38

What kind of education? I don’t think piercings or tattoos are at all unprofessional for a college teacher, perhaps even a high school teacher.

It seems to me that the only reason to care about someone’s appearance is if that appearance is going to affect your business. If a sales rep with a nose ring can’t make sales because the clients don’t respect him, that’s legitimate.

But when you’re talking about a teacher, what would the equivalent be? The students don’t like teachers with piercings? They don’t like white-haired old ladies who assign 20 page term papers and whack desks with rulers either, but that doesn’t seem to have any bearing on the hiring decisions.

39

Tattoos and nose rings are not unprofessional, neither are they professional. They just are. There are a lot of people who THINK they’re unprofessional, and who allow their prejudices to color their judgements, witness many posts on this board.

If upper middle class people ran around wearing silver-lame tube tops and butt plugs with pony tails hanging out, you can be sure that would be the professional thing to wear, and any other kind of dress would be considered unprofessional. I live among baboons.

40

I think nose rings and studs are so commonplace nowadays that I don’t even notice them. All sorts of people have them, young and old. It’s kinda like earrings. Unless they are very large or numerous, I don’t even notice. To me, it’s the same as arguing someone who has a set of earrings shouldn’t be hired.

A nose ring does not mean someone is counter-culture or rebellious or anything like that. I’ve seen them on too many different kinds of people to believe that.

One thought: perhaps she purposely exposed her bod mods so it wouldn’t be a surprise later. If you hire someone knowing they are modded, it’s not as easy to dismiss them later on based on that. If you hired her, and then later discovered her mods and let her go, she couldn’t fight that as easily. So it’s just better for both parties to be aware of something like that up front.

My nose is pierced. I don’t even think about it anymore, it’s been so long. If necessary, I’d remove it for employment purposes simply because I like having a roof over my head and food in my belly! I’d also remove it if I were, say, trying to get an important bank loan or something. Because, unfortunately, a lot of people do react negatively to any sort of body piercing beyond basic earlobes.