Those of you who do enjoy these mutilations will, I hope, be considerate of others who find them disturbing. Frankly, I find some of them very unpleasant to look at or even think about. What you do within the privacy of your own clothes or homes I could not care less about, but I am sure I would completely lose my appetite if my server in a restaurant had pieces of metal stuck in his or her face. Maybe this is a form of prejudice; if so, it’s against a behavior, not something like skin color which you have no choice about. Certainly you have the right to carve up and poke holes in whatever part of your body you want to; I also have the right not to want to look at that sort of thing if I don’t want to.
I think I’ve made it clear that if appearance is affecting the business then employers are smart to demand someone who’s appearance won’t affect business negatively.
But you said that performance “almost never” trumps appearance. If someone has a proven track record as the best at what he/she does, do you pass if he/she has piercings all over his/her face?
If they were good at what they did, I wouldn’t care how they looked.
I don’t think anyone has argued against this. The question is should appearance be important if it has no effect on performance?
Personally, I think it’s good for students to be exposed to different cultures, different aesthetics, different lifestyles etc. I think it helps promote tolerance.
The question, or rather debate, isn’t whether or not personal expressions like these are “professional” but whether or not we mean what we say when we talk about having a ‘diverse’ workplace. We hear daily how we are supposed to accept that person, and this person, for this reason and that, what makes this so different? IMO, nothing. We only want true diversity when it conforms to some ancient, empty, and completely arbitrary standards, from which, sadly, we will never deviate. We (meaning americans) are raised as sheep, from school, to religion, to work, until we die, certain things are expected, certain meaningless things are a part of our makeup. For instance, the antiquated thought process that says men will wear nooses (ties) to work in, and moreover, they will only be of a certain color scheme. And that women will wear skirts of an ‘appropriate’ length and color and that hair shall be trimmed in a certain way and be a certain color, it’s all just mediocre, arbitrary crap.
Even so, I’ll humor…so you want to talk about professionalism?
I go into a burning office building where YOU, dear professional, are trapped. You notice that my hair is blue, i’m pierced, and the stickers on my helmet indicate I listen to psychobilly music. Do any of those things matter to you? Or, would my knowledge, skills and ability that allow me to operate in a burning building to save your life mean more to you at that point? There is an obvious answer. IMO, if you just waited for the next fireman to come along, you’d deserve to surrender to the smoke and flames.
For my money, nothing is more important than the saving of a life, not the insurance industry, not the banking profession, not sales, not even professionalism itself. (it sounds like i’m sucking myself off here, but i’m not, really) and if I can look the way I do, and express freely, and save lives, then there’s no reason not to ditch the ties and the brown suits and the republican lean haircuts, if that is your desire, and open yourself up to another world (or not, see ain’t choice grand).
FWIW, I know this will never change, unless, that is, WE change it.
**
Every society has their own set of mores that make up that mediocre, abritrary crap. Yes, those mores certainly aren’t constant and what was deemed correct 50 years ago might not be deemed correct these days. Even within the same time period you’ll see different mores among various subcultures. What might be appropriate for a carnival employee might not be appropriate for someone working at Sears.
Marc
Just curious to the response. My wife has 6 or 7 total ear piercings and recently got a tiny stud in her nose. She is in school in order to become an optometrist, and she will be starting in clinics again in a month. I recommended that she takes out the nose piercing for clinics – she doesn’t think it will be a big deal. I think that with her face up in her patients’ faces for an hour, some people could get really turned off.
Anyway, I like the piercings, but I can still recognize the unprofessional-ness of it all. In service industries, it matters very little what we think is appropriate – it all must stem from the customer.
Ah the adolescent cry of “just accept me” - so very novel this.
Well, I am a three piece suit sort of fellow, and the reality is image counts in business. Hysterical emergency scenarios and the like do not enter into the equation.
So you wish to pursue white collar employment, you have to have a white collar image. If you do not, well, that’s fine. Your choice.
Now it would appear in some second rate educational facilities intructors can wear what they like and look like circus clowns. That’s great, I shall of course not do business with them.
Of course this all makes me oppressive and The Man, but such is life.
** I was respondng to a comment and was merely talking in generalities (not specifically about the OP story). Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
I’m glad I don’t live where you live then, as I judge people by their ability to do their job, not how they look when they do it. We run a highly professonal office here with many important clients, and not one person wears a tie or jacket. No one needs to hide behind clothes because they are damn good at what they do. And our clients know this. If they are shallow enough to think we can’t be any good because we are not all wearing suits, then I’m not interested in working for them. And we have more than enough work on. Clients are much more inclined to pay for talent and graft than for style without substance.
Region may have a lot to do with the answer to this question, too.
I must admit, I don’t find nose rings an aesthetically pleasing choice. But I don’t find them at all unprofessional, no more than earrings or a necklace or bracelet. A stud nosering doesn’t detract from someone’s professionalism at all. (Of course they’re also common enough that I don’t see them as counter-culture or defying conventions.)
As far as tattoos, I would find wearing short sleeves to a first interview evidence of poor decision making skills. But in general - no, not automatically unprofessional either. (Of course, this does depend on the tat.)
Here’s my take: I do the retail end of my buisness. When I first started working for them, I was very careful to look clean-cut.
Seven years later, I no longer have to worry about my appearance being odd, as I have proven myself to be “the guy to ask.” At that point, long green hair or a nose ring start to be an asset. It’s another stereotype, like the hardcore linux geek looking like the Unabomber…
If I chose to start all over again, I don’t think my appearance would change much.
I find it interesting that hair length for males is not mentioned in the OP.
I once had a neighbor with long hair and a beard who was employed as a mechanic. When he lost his job he went looking for another one and he cut his hair and shaved his beard off. he felt that doing so would increase his odds of getting a job.
Marc
Hmm… I wear an earring and very casual clothes to work. I do my job well, and my appearance doesn’t have any bearing on this (worn my earring to the last three job interviews I went for, and I got the job in each case).
However, I have been in customer-facing and business-to-business jobs where I have had to conform to a certain look. For these jobs, I have removed my earring and worn a suit. I don’t like to dress like that, but it’s convention. It’s great that convention can be bucked occasionally, but not at the expense of the job I’ve been hired to do. If my appearance were to adversely affect business, then I wouldn’t be doing my job to the best of my abilities.
You are all lucky to live where you do.
In Dubai, if you work in the creative biz; graphic design, animation etc…some degree of individuality is tolerated. Like my nose ring wouldn’t pose me a problem, but if it did, I’ll probably have to take it off. I have tattoos, but none on my arms. I don’t want to jeopardize my chances of getting a good job.
I know a friend of mine who wears an eyebrow ring and wore it to a job interview at a bank. She was given the job because she got it through big-time connections. But the interviewer made it pretty clear that she should remove it before she starts working. And she did.
Sometimes, I do not understand why she did it, knowing Dubai is such a conservative place and all.
[quote]
Originally posted by MLS
body mutilations
It’s perfectly acceptable to cut off a baby’s foreskin, but poke a little ring through your nose instead of your earlobe and suddenly one is “mutilating” oneself?
I have a great many aquainences that have this attitude that many are displaying here. The “I should be able to look like I want” attittude. Sure, in theory, it makes sense. How you look doesn’t dictate how well you work. Problem is, we live in a society. And in societies “norms” become established for various situations. If you choose not to fit into those norms, you have that right, but don’t expect to be excepted.
In this large group of ‘individuals’ I know (who despite claiming to be individuals, all look, act, and sound alike), one guy stands out. No visible tats, no visible piercings, well groomed, hair cut. He is also the one guy who makes more than 20K a year and has a job with any benifits, even though the rest of his group all have the same level of education as him. He realized that if he wanted to go anywhere in the working world he would have to fit into societies image. He did, and he is doing great. As a person, he is the same guy, he just knows that at work, he is on someones dime, so they get to dictate how he looks, and to a lesser degree, acts.
It’s the way of the world.
I’m a lawyer and I wear a gold hoop in my left ear.
When I worked for a private firm, I did not wear it at work. Of course, most private law firms are not the kind of places you go in order to express your individuality.
Having been with the fed govt the past 16 years, I wear it at work every day. No one cares (at least as far as I can tell.) A long time ago I used to take it out for arguments in federal court. Haven’t bothered with that for the past decade or so. No judge has ever mentioned it, and I have no reason to believe it has affected my success/effectiveness.
We used to have a secretary who wore a nose stud - no one cared. Some of the secretaries have tats that are visible depending on what they wear - say during the summer if they wear a no-sleeve shirt or dress. Of our lawyers whom I know have tats, none I can think of are visible in casual professional attire.
In court, guys pretty much have to wear suit coats, so unless the tat is on the hands or face, it simply would not be an issue. Women can get away with short sleeved dresses.
In theory, I think people should be able to dress and look how they wish.
In practice, I don’t think it’s feasible.
The problem comes when the person looks a certain way that is not under their control. Someone in this thread said they’d be repulsed if a server in a restaurant had piercings. But what if the server had a scar? Or a large strawberry mark on his or her face? Acne? Psoriasis? A harelip? Cross-eyed?
Maybe these things have to matter, too. But should they?
Julie
Just one of these things, no problem. All six of these things at once might be a little unnerving.
Reminds me of the time I had an oral argument against a sole practitioner who had a severe stutter. An interesting experience. Really made me wonder why, of all the possible areas within law, he chose one that involved significant oral advocacy.
Who won and did he put up a good fight?