Nobody’s said it was a violation of human rights, just something shitty that we’re making shittier for no real reason. There’s a word for people who make something shitty even shittier for no real reason, and it begins with an “a.”
On one hand, those places are only open because people go to them. If enough people were really put off about the entire thing, we’d see fewer Thanksgiving day shoppers. It doesn’t remotely make them assholes, but on the other hand…
…I’ve seen some of these places start the Xmas stuff well before Halloween. That’s ridiculous, and I wonder how long it is before we just make Xmas a year-round shopping season.
I’ve been on both ends. I’ve been a boss who schedules people to work on holidays (and I usually worked those holidays to give my employees off) and I’ve been someone who works on holidays. I have a job now that closes on major holidays which is nice but when I worked retail jobs and worked managed hotels, which are often 24/7/365 businesses, I filled out the applications expecting that I was going to work a holiday or two. It was nice to be able to maybe work a Thanksgiving and a Christmas Eve and have Christmas off or have Christmas Eve and work New Years Eve and have Christmas off, you made it work, you made sacrifices and worked with your employees who either wanted to work the holidays and wanted the extra pay or didn’t mind the hours. It didn’t always work out in everyone’s favor, not everyone was always happy, including myself, but the one good thing about it is that it usually wasn’t busy. Christmas working at a hotel was usually quiet. If I had came from lunch or dinner, I’d grab a plate to go, head to work put on some Christmas music and relax and enjoy my evening. In retail, which I did many years was a little busier of course but was fun around the holidays but it’s always a little better if you have someone there with you working along side.
I’m not trying to sound like a jerk. I’m as liberal as they come. I just don’t understand the protest of working during the time in which the business makes the most money. It would be nice if businesses closed down but as long as there is a demand for goods and services., there are stores that are going to stay open on the holidays.
That’s just it, there is nothing for you to cite.
You neither will stand behind the words that you use nor do you provide cites.
There is no story “CNN reports: People who shop on Thanksgiving are assholes.” That’s your take.
You just want to say “Hey, that guy over there thinks you are an ASSHOLE for shopping on Thanksgiving.” And out of the other side of your mouth whisper “Hey, that guy over there is saying if you don’t shop on Thanksgiving YOU are putting these people out of work.”
You’re an instigator going out of your way to present everyone’s side as extreme as possible. You’re trying to stir the pot and turn people against each other.
Well, if you want a TV for $199 and that’s the time they’re selling TVs for $199 (guaranteed three in stock!) then the opportunity cost for taking a stand by staying home is higher. You can fairly say that they care more about buying a TV for Christmas than the retail workers but I think it’s worth noting that they’re there for the supposedly limited sales and not because they just love shopping on Thursdays.
I don’t know what you think I have said that requires citing. Clearly this controversy exists, as you can see right in this very thread, even if you are too lazy to Google it for yourself.
I am attempting to discern the rationale behind people’s views on the topic, not “instigate” anything beyond discussion. Sorry you don’t like anything I have to say on the topic, but relax, I’m just a stranger on the internet.
You would have been great during the cold war.
“Will the Soviets turn our children into godless communists that kick dogs or do we have to nuke them right this minute? But hey, it’s not me say that. I’m just asking questions. So, should we nuke them now or don’t you care about your children?”
You don’t think this is maybe a little hyperbolic?
Again, how do you feel about people who go shopping or out to eat on the weekends? Surely they are assholes too? I mean people who work weekends are obviously also being exploited, but they know their only alternative is a life of crime, so they keep clocking in at the mall. All those unscrupulous shoppers keep the system afloat.
This is the part of it that bugs me.
Capitalism, at its best, provides for the wants and needs of society in an efficient manner. Businesses perceive the needs of their customers and meet them. Take banking. 30 years ago, ‘bankers hours’ were 10-3 on weekdays. Terribly inconvenient for the working man/woman, there was a need for more hours. Now, banks have expanded the number of hours they’re open to include late nights and weekends. This change in open times directly addresses a need of their customers.
Capitalism, at its worst, ignores the wants and needs of society and does something non-optimal to drive individual profits. It’s the tail wagging the dog. There is no societal need or customer generated pressure for the bulk of retail stores to be open on Thanksgiving. People (by and large) were perfectly, genuinely, satisfied with starting the Christmas Rush on Friday. There was no large contingent of holiday shoppers bemoaning the fact that Toys r Us was closed on Thanksgiving. They will still show up on Thursday because TRU provides an incentive, or threatens people with a disincentive for waiting until Friday.
6 years ago, the big deal was stores opening at midnight, or 4am on Friday, no big retailer opened on Thanksgiving. 10 years ago it was opening at 6am. The times just kept getting pushed back in a race to the bottom. Race to be the first retailer to get a customer’s money.
This thread kind of makes me want to go out and see a movie on Thanksgiving.
This is exactly what it is. The only retailers that actually gain anything by being open on Thanksgiving are those that are the first to do so. I don’t mean just in terms of the earliest hour, but also in terms of the first ever to open on Thansgiving. Say for example in 200X, no retailers are open on Thanksgiving. In 200X+1, Big Box retailer 1 opens on Thanksgiving at 6 pm. They gain additional sales because the other retailers are not open. By 200X+3, nearly all retailers open at 6 pm, and the sales are not much different than they would have been if the stores were all closed on Thursday. So in 2000+4 , Big Box #2 opens at 10 am on Thursday, and they now have an advantage and so on and so on…
It similar to the reason some small businesses want laws that require car dealerships or liquor stores or other businesses to be closed on one day per week to remain in effect. Because the owners know that as soon as seven day operations are permitted, the market will force them to all be open seven days- even though they won’t make sell any more cars or make any extra money. As soon as one is open seven days, they will all have to open just to stay even.
It would be nice if the stores either made holiday shifts voluntary or increased the amount (double overtime, triple?) of pay to make it worth it for people to volunteer
You clearly aren’t just asking. If you were, then people giving answers would be enough. Instead you’ve been arguing with them. And not just to get clarifications. You are trying to prove them wrong.
You’ve also completely misrepresented the positions of the people in this thread. Not a single person has said you must be an asshole if you shop on Thanksgiving. We are talking in generalities.
And, despite what you said in your OP, the media has not been arguing that you are an asshole if you shop on Thanksgiving. They’ve said that companies that force their employees to work on Thanksgiving are assholes, and recommended a boycott of those stores that do this–if you disagree with the practice.
No, it just has no relevance. For one, you weren’t doing it on Thanksgiving as little as 10 years ago. For another, whether you are an asshole or not is not about what you want. An asshole is someone who cares only about what they want, and not the other people it may be affecting.
Are people forced to work those days? Or do they use a skeleton crew of people who want to do something?
Are you shopping at a store full of people who don’t want to work that day? Then yes. You went to the corner gas station with someone who chose to work, not so much.
Not likely. Most of these things are entirely automated, and thus no one is being forced to work on that day.
No, because the workers will get off on Thanksgiving, meaning your shipping will take 3 days.
No, because those are also scaled down for the holidays.
[quote[If the answer is “no” to any of these things, then the answer to the OP’s question is simple. No, people aren’t assholes for shopping on Thanksgiving.[/quote]
Only because those question ignored the actual issue, which are the retail workers being forced to work on that day in the shittiest of conditions.
If you think it sucks, then you do something to try and stop it. The people saying it sucks but then also go out and shop are the people who are assholes.
[quote]
There’s nothing stopping close-knit families from making their own holidays. If some significant fraction of one’s family members are retail employees and they know they will be unavailable during the traditional holiday season, how about everyone reserve another day on their calendars, synched with the kids’ school schedules? “OK, everyone! How about we have our annual family get-together on the long-ass Jackson-Lee King weekend!”
[/quote[
Yes, there is. It requires taking special vacation days, and makes the federal holiday pointless. Instead of having one day that’s easy to coordinate, you have 50 people with different schedules to get it all together with.
And as long as you don’t frequent places that force their employees to work on those days in shitty conditions, you’re fine. Otherwise, you’re supporting the very thing you said is shitty. And that is a shitty thing to do. It’s saying you’re more important than them.
That’s what sets apart decent people from assholes. Assholes only care about themselves, not others.
So how long do you think it wil be before stores open Christmas night so people can shop the post-Christmas sales?
Ha ha, and then you personally DO literally call Thanksgiving shoppers assholes right in your next post!
What a ridiculous slew of nonsense you’ve made up. No need to cling so tightly to your self-righteousness, I doubt it’s going anywhere.
Keep in mind that I don’t go around calling people I don’t work with assholes…
Not only are store execs greedy assholes looking to bump up their bottom line, the shoppers are assholes. The Thanksgiving/Friday morning shopper, based on my personal experience and conversations with them, does it for the thrill of being first, of having bragging rights, of talking about it to me and everyone else they know. It’s a rush, and they are self serving junkies looking for instant gratification.
Is it really worth taking someone who could otherwise be at home with Grandma and the cousins away from their family so you could feed your habit (face it, it can’t be more than 10% of people who’d volunteer to work)? What’s the long term payoff?
My in laws go crazy every Friday morning after the holiday, leaving home at 4-5 am, waiting in lines, and then go home and talk about all their savings. I’d rather sleep in, go out Friday night, Sunday afternoon, or maybe a random day in December, and save even more on the exact same item, knowing that except for a limited quantity of electronics, the Black Friday sales are bullshit. Plus I can get my shopping done in 2 hours with no lines, not all day waiting for parking spots and customer service.
MY personal favorites were the people who’d come in on holidays (like Easter) and tell us, “Gee, you guys shouldn’t have to work today! They should’ve let you have the day off!” Um…then why the fuck are you here, dumbass?
My great grandmother used to complain about my mom having to work on Thanksgiving while sitting in a restaurant eating a meal on Thanksgiving.
I’m poor and I’m getting time and a half for working on Thanksgiving.
If they hadn’t asked me to work that day I would have begged to, because the input of cash into the household is worth my working that day.
I also grew up in a family of police and medical types, and married a professional musician, so working on holidays was a normal part of family life for me both growing up and as an adult. It doesn’t bother me the way it does some people. I am quite happy to work holidays (at time and a half) so others don’t have to.
My employer is open 24/7, except for a few hours on Christmas. They make that very clear during the hiring process, and that you will be expected to work holidays especially if you have low seniority. They will work around religious requirements, but that’s about it. If your schedule is restricted due to childcare or other family care needs you may be restricted to part-time status.
So, please, do NOT think all of us poor retail drones are unhappy to be there on Thanksgiving. Sure, I have to be there by 6 am but I’m going home at 2:30 so it’s not like I can’t have a big dinner with my family. Those on the later shifts may have to do the family thing before they start work, but it’s not like we’re chained to a cash register for 12 hours.
As for the people shopping - some people are assholes regardless of the date. Most people who shop are not assholes, and some of them are pretty darn nice. I anticipate a certain level of stupidity and asshole antics, but then, we get those on ordinary days, too.