^ THIS.
Oh, and by the way - I’m off Monday and Tuesday this week, even if I am working the holiday. It’s not like I have no time off. I actually have a couple hours fewer scheduled than usual, although with the holiday pay I’ll still have a larger than usual paycheck.
Yes, for some people working the holiday is a hardship. Not for everyone.
The biggest thing is that asshole shoppers are assholes regardless of the day of the year. There’s no excuse for that at any time.
Which isn’t any different than what I’ve stated. We get the situation we deserve, in that these places continue to extend the shopping season, because the demand is there. If people really saw issue with it, they’d vote with their time and wallets.
But at the same time, the limited sales don’t have to occur on Thursday, as if that’s some ideal day to sell TVs. That same $199 TV can be made available the day after, and people would line up all the same (as they traditionally have), to get one. This is just an extension of the holiday season, because it’s a greater window to make money ahead of the next guy/company. Enough people are okay with it, that it stands and continues to overlap or push its way earlier and earlier, every few years.
Strictly out of curiosity, do you think the situation is exploitative at all?
In MY particular case…?
No.
Back when I lived in non-retail corporate America I would explicitly let management know I was happy to work the Christmas-through-New Year’s week so others could take that time off. I’ve worked many jobs where I volunteered to be the one to work weekends or holidays.
As I said, in my family it was normal to work the holiday because so many of us had jobs that required it. We often offset a holiday a day or two to accommodate that. Some families have a tradition of everyone getting together on a particular day with certain customs. MY family has a tradition of accommodating people required to work on holidays, and it wasn’t because we were all retail drones but because folks were police or worked in a hospital or played music professionally at other peoples’ parties.
As I have also said, my employer is very explicit at hiring that they are a 24/7 operation. Thus, someone has to work weekends and holidays. No doubt they were ecstatic to have me show up and declare I would work any day and any shift, preferred to work weekends (I like my days off to be during the Mon-Fri part of the week), and was happy to work holidays for time and half.
It’s not exploitative for me because I tend to seek out those schedules and have a long family tradition of that being normal life.
It certainly is a problem for other people. Which is why I am happy to work those days so others don’t have to do so.
Yes, I think it CAN be exploitative in some circumstances… but not all. Yes, some days are more stressful than others at work, and some times of day, but if it was all fun they wouldn’t need to pay us, right? All jobs have some suck attached to them. Working retail is FAR from the worst work situation I have been in.
Frankly, I find the pretentious declaration of Hobby Lobby that they give their employees Sunday off for “family and worship” to be more offensive - what if your Sabbath is Saturday (Jews) or Friday (Muslims) or some other day? What if your other family members do work Sunday and you’d rather be off a different day? Nice way to exclude anyone who isn’t Christian. But that’s getting a bit off topic.
Socialist! 
No, the stores are artificially creating the demand by selling very limited quantities of things at reduced prices. If the department stores were open on Thanksgiving but with the same prices they’d had every other day, do you think anyone would show up? Enough people to warrant paying the overtime and turning the lights on? Of course not. So they draw you out by saying “Well, you could get this $199 TV if you skip out on dinner or stay home and pay $650 for it tomorrow. Your choice…”
It’s not as though the stores were forced into this position, they created it deliberately.
Actually, it’s a bit of a tangent, but yes, yes they would. No pay=no money, no money=no customers, no customers=no profits. It’s not JUST about how much fun a job is or is not.
I will give grocery stores that are open on Thanksgiving (and Christmas) a pass. There’s always something you forgot for the big meal…
As for “big box” stores opening on Thanksgiving, I don’t see the real problem in opening on Thanksgiving night - say, 6 PM to midnight - but then, in my family, Thanksgiving dinner usually ends by 4. The people who eat late can shop (and work) early, and the people who eat early can shop (and work) late. It’s only a problem if somebody is forced to work - especially if they had Thanksgiving plans that get ruined because the boss demands that you work particular hours.
Here’s a thought; find a way to match shoppers to workers based on why they’re there. For example:
Aisle 1 - “So how was your Thansgiving / what are your plans?” “Well, the stuffing was burned, again / Dinner with the folks, and my brother’s family, and my sister-in-law’s cousin’s neighbor’s ex-wife’s new boyfriend’s secretary…”
Aisle 2 - “Man, it’s good to get out of that house!” “Tell me about it! Who came up with the idea of nonstop football?”
Aisle 3 - “letsgetthisoverwithineedtobesomewhere” “dontweallthatllbeseventysixfifty”
I think it should be a rule though if you have to work a holiday, you can say whatever you want to customers without getting in trouble. Makes it worth the while. 
You think you’re joking but unless they get a special exemption, stores can’t open on Sunday in France (except for family owned businesses). There’s in fact a big debate about this currently.
And I think indeed that people who state hee that supermarkets should be opened on Sunday for their convenience are assholes. So what you think as an outrageous example isn’t outrageous at all for me.
I’m sure plenty of them are pretty happy with the overtime. The problem is that obviously a lot of businesses will pressure into doing it also those workers who are very unhappy with it (or just mandate it).
Obviously the answer is the make Thanksgiving retail work voluntary. If Best Buy can get enough “So glad I’m away from my family” or “Needed the overtime so bad” people to man the place when 500 people come in looking for cheap electronics, go ahead and open up.
Not being serious of course but I do suspect a lot more places would stay closed.
Thanks, like I said, I was really just curious about your stance. I mostly agree with your idea.
So they’re artificially creating the demand, but real people are showing up and spending real money, and continue to do so earlier and earlier over the years. I’m not going to play semantics, that’s demand. On one end you have the consumer willing to buy, on the other, the store who is more than happy to extend the lucrative holiday season, while attempting to outdo competing businesses. Some people have even expressed their willingness to work on these days. The two (three) have to come together, in order for this to function, so it can’t just be hinged on one entity/group.
And just the same, consumers aren’t forced into the position to buy a $199 TV on Thursday, just as they aren’t forced to buy every sale item in a store on any other given day. They prioritize and choose to.
There’s no “playing semantics”, I’m just saying the simple fact: If the deep sales weren’t on Thanksgiving there would be no Thanksgiving retail shopping (not enough to warrant turning the lights on and paying the overtime anyway). No one was clamoring to be able to stand in line for three hours on Thursday afternoon waiting for a store to open. There’s a demand for cheap shit, not a demand for cheap shit to be sold on Thanksgiving. They’re showing up “earlier and earlier” because that’s when the stores are putting the cheap shit on sale in limited quantities.
Of course not. They’re given the option with the opportunity cost that this will be their one chance to do it (whether accurate or not, this is how the stores market it). Yes, they wind up picking a cheap TV over dinner with the family but there’s no legitimate reason why they should have to be making that choice on Thursday over any other day in the first place. It’s completely created by the stores.
And that’s really the bottom line. The rest we can agree to disagree with, but these are conscious choices people are making (and usually over non-essential items). Aside from certain cases, which Broomstick touched on when I posed a specific question, this thread has revealed that there are enough people on either side, that it’s near pointless to split hairs about it. If you find the practice of shopping on Thanksgiving despicable, then don’t do it. I don’t. If enough people feel the same as you do, the retailers will take notice and won’t hesitate to adjust their sales tactics to better reach the will of the consumer.
If anything is certain in this country, it’s that they’ll find another way to make a dollar, be it before Halloween (my area), Thursday afternoon, 12 midnight, or the Monday after. So long as there is someone who must have a $199 TV bad enough, they’ll cater to them. Where you choose to place the responsibility, creates a distinction without a difference, to me.
I’m all for people shopping on holidays, and I think that those who have a problem with it are colossal boors and hypocritical. I don’t see any of them pissing about people working on Sundays, which keeps the whole family from getting together and enjoying time together. What’s the diff?
I also think that those who complain about ‘corporations, Walmart, etc…’ forcing employees to work on those days would not think a thing about getting gas for their vehicles on a trip that they take on holidays, or having a family member fly in on Thanksgiving morning, forcing the airport employees to work, or running down to the store for ‘just a loaf of bread’, etc…
Employees who are forced to work on holidays are what many people call “employees”.
These self-appointed guardians of public social health are just using holidays as their weapon against the boogeyman whom they identify with ‘the corporations’. If all of the companies gave the employees Thanksgiving off, these same guardians would blame them for abusing the poorimmigrant/unmarriedmother/unionmember and forbidding them to make a living just because ‘the Man’ decided to force his religion on the weak/poor/disadvantaged.
I am a retail worker, and thankfully my employer has enough decency to be closed Thanksgiving.I think the majority of the uproar is related to the lack of separation of the holidays.Thanksgiving is Thursday, Black Friday is Friday.This line should NEVER have been crossed,but it was.Having to work a retail job on Thanksgiving is straight up bullshit,and it would take everything in my power not to be openly hostile at the selfish materialistic assholes that feel a need to shop for made in China junk on that day.I would also like to point out that at my place of business,which is 90% part timers,they are NOT paid extra for working holidays… Only full timers.I am sure a lot of other retail businesses are the same…so yes…if you shop on Thanksgiving, I will think of you as an asshole!
At my employer, even the part-timers get extra pay for working a holiday. So YMMV.
My experience last night tells me that next year the stores will open even earlier.
The mall opened at 6pm. I arrived for work at 11. It stayed very busy until about 2am or so, and then remained steady until about 5. Then it died for an hour until the day shift shoppers started to arrive, and when I left at 8, it was as busy as it was when I got there.
It’s working for retailers, and so it will continue.
Unfortunately, when people shopping for calendars at 3:30 am say to me, “If it weren’t for assholes like us, you wouldn’t be here!” I’m not allowed to agree.
In a few years, they’ll be open on Christmas – mark my words. It’s like, nobody wants to give anyone a day off, when it comes to making money. (Cue all the same arguments)
Agreeing with Frank that Thanksgiving was a successful retail day. Target had a good day.
Thanksgiving night looks like the new Black Friday. By Friday, the crowds had already thinned out, unlike Black Fridays in the past.