This is for our christians on the board. Let me explain.
Hell is described as a place of fire and brimstone where the souls of evil people are eternally tormented for believing bad things. How does this even work with a soul?
I wouldn’t assume our souls are flammable. It seems like a bit of a defect. Who created us God or M Night Shyamalan?
Do the souls of people who died in fires survive or are these lost souls?
As horrific as I find the thought of any entity of power condemning anyone to an eternity of torment it’s even more frightening to postulate that this entity would go through the bother of creating a new body for them to expressly torment them for eternity.
I’ll admit, I’d never considered this line of thought but how do you rationalize the tortures of hell? What methods can eternally inflict harm on a soul and was it only invented for the express purpose of said torture?
I realize I may be talking a bit tongue in cheek here but it’s an honest question which I’ve never really seen addressed. Considering I may be heading there, while hopefully not in the ‘need answers fast’ category, it’s something to concern myself with.
For those christians who don’t believe in hell, I get that but there are a lot that do believe it literally and this is for them. How does it work in your mind?
True, but his way of doing it is outsourced in this case. I’m wondering about the guy it’s outsourced to and his methodology. Plus, if we weren’t to question the methods why did he suggest a specific method that would be used? That doesn’t add up.
Well, it’s not like they could have said they’d have to watch reruns of bad TV shows for all of eternity. They picked “burning forever” as something you’d have to admit sounds pretty unpleasant and went with that.
No, souls are not strictly speaking fireproof. Souls are rated Class B fire resistant under American Society of Testing and Materials standardized ASTM E-108 conditions. As the conditions of Hell are believed to be closely simulated by the combustion of brimstone in a standard vertical tube test furnace at 700 degrees C, the oxygen-deprived conditions would not lead to direct combustion of the soul, merely some scorching and of course an awful lot of good Christian heat. Further research may lead to more accurate data but it’s hard to find a willing soul.
The Old and New Testaments don’t lay out a detailed map of the afterlife; almost everything attributed to the afterlife of the damned in Hell was pretty much made up, most famously by Dante Alighieri in Inferno*, the first book of his Comedy. The most that serious theologians are willing to say on the subject is that those who eternally reject God suffer the consequences of their refusal, which according to many includes being at the non-existent mercy of the fallen angels.
FWIW, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle sort of addressed this in their novel Inferno when the book’s protagonist Carpentier realizes the implications of being unable to (permanently) die in Hell.
*In the original medieval Italian, inferno means underground or subterranean, not hot.
That’s a perfectly valid response that I will classify as equivalent to the fact that not all christians believe in hell. There are christians who believe that the bible is literal and everything is literally correct. I am wondering how these folks explain it.
I don’t see how the Bible can be a comfort to that kind of person. For example, Noah, this is the most psychopathic view of God possible.
He decides to wipe out evil in the world so he slays all but 5 people and he kills all the animals too even though with no souls they can’t sin. They are purely innocent victims. Does it work? No, it doesn’t work so all the murder was in vain. The kicker? He is omnipotent so he knew it wouldn’t work when he did it.
How can you live a happy life believing that your God is like this? For many, they can. For me, it’s unfathomable. It’s about understanding this. I want to have some insight into what they are thinking not what I think they’re thinking. So I decided to ask.
Again, that type of christian. I have no issue understanding the faith in general nor am I hostile towards it. It’s the underpining of my morality after all. I can’t exactly ask people I know this because then I get perceived as hostile or obstinate. That’s why I wanted to ask on a public yet anonymous forum.
Now, this would be exceedingly helpful but I’m afraid my engineering knowledge is worse than my biblical one. I’ll store it away for the future, in case I ever get educated.
But, if souls are rated on American standards then it’s no wonder hell is one screwed up place.
I’m not at all sure you’re looking for a serious answer here, but as you probably know, most Christians do not believe the Bible to be literally true, and do not believe Hell to be a physical place.
What Hell is is probably unknowable (until you get there, I guess), but it is certainly a state of separation from God.
Many Christian denominations admit at least the possibility of universal salvation. If that is the case, there is no one in hell, except perhaps those who chose to be there. The fallen angels would fit into this category.
Thanks. Where does the Milton view ( hell is being separated from God ) fit. Is it earlier or later than Dante? I’ve always found this one a far more understandable view. Banishments are far more merciful and make far more sense to me.
I wouldn’t think there are many but surely there are some. Maybe even some who don’t want to wade into firefights all the time and would like to express themselves.
How about the opinion though? Was it his originally or did he get it from any docrinal sources? It’s been years since I have had anything to do with studying Milton. If I ever knew the answer it’s been long forgotten.
Some say hell is just separation from God. (Covered here.)
Others say that God actively sends hurties on those he rejects. Flames and boiling pitch are likely just metaphors (although some churches take it as a literal pool of burning tar and sulphur.) God can do this if he wants: miracles are his thing.
Yet others say that wicked souls are burnt up, consumed, reduced to ash and then thrown away. Annihiliationism. “The soul that sins shall die.” It probably hurts real bad, but, hey, a lot of ways in which we die hurts our bodies real bad. Drowning, falling off a motorcycle, getting gored by a yak, etc. In this view, the suffering is not eternal nor infinite, but just one-and-then-done, under God’s wrath.
A very small handful suggest, as in Niven and Pournelle’s treatment, that you can actually get used to it. Okay, so it hurts. After you’ve walked in fire the first million years, it stops being so big a deal.
You can find just about any doctrine you want, espoused by someone. The common ground, generally, is, if God doesn’t like you, then be prepared for some unpleasantness.
Interesting. I’ve never heard of annihiliationism before now and while I didn’t know about what Niven and Pournelle had to say that actually crossed my mind when thinking about this. Nothing can continue to be a big deal infinitely. Humans don’t generally work that way.
I don’t think that I’m talking about that rare of a group of people. Maybe I’ve been mislead I don’t know. I once asked my brother about the Goliath story and he adamently believed that giants were common during that time. Dude doesn’t even go to church but he does believe that the bible was literally telling the truth and it’s possible that the truth is different now. Now we don’t have real giants, then they did.
I asked to be sure and it wasn’t just tall dudes. It was literally a race of giants that lived and went extinct. I obviously disagree.
I’ve never met a christian who has straight out espoused that the bible is literally true in all aspects but I’ve read a lot about them. Maybe they are just way overrepresented in the media. I’d love to hear from one of them but like posted earlier; wrong place to ask but this is where I go. I don’t really want to go anywhere else.
I believe the Bible is true, however it does contain many forms of speech including letters, parables (stories used to illustrate a point) , proverbs, allegories (literary devices that convey hidden meanings), hyperbole’s (phrases that are not intended to be taken literally but used to emphasize), orations, and others.
If you are considering going there, here is a little story from Luke that might give a glimpse of hell.
Luke 16:19-31
Jesus said, “There was a certain rich man who was splendidly clothed in purple and fine linen and who lived each day in luxury. At his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus who was covered with sores. As Lazarus lay there longing for scraps from the rich man’s table, the dogs would come and lick his open sores. “Finally, the poor man died and was carried by the angels to be with Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried, and his soul went to the place of the dead. There, in torment, he saw Abraham in the far distance with Lazarus at his side. “The rich man shouted, ‘Father Abraham, have some pity! Send Lazarus over here to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue. I am in anguish in these flames.’“But Abraham said to him, ‘Son, remember that during your lifetime you had everything you wanted, and Lazarus had nothing. So now he is here being comforted, and you are in anguish. And besides, there is a great chasm separating us. No one can cross over to you from here, and no one can cross over to us from there.’“Then the rich man said, ‘Please, Father Abraham, at least send him to my father’s home. For I have five brothers, and I want him to warn them so they don’t end up in this place of torment.’“But Abraham said, ‘Moses and the prophets have warned them. Your brothers can read what they wrote.’“The rich man replied, ‘No, Father Abraham! But if someone is sent to them from the dead, then they will repent of their sins and turn to God.’“But Abraham said, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the prophets, they won’t listen even if someone rises from the dead.”
I certainly agree that the bible does contain these things but they all have one thing in common; the point is ultimately left for the reader to decide.
This isn’t what I’m describing here. I’m talking about people who believe that these proverbs and parables don’t contain spiritual truths in parab;es rather they exist in literal form. Like the mythical race of giants of my brothers belief.
Are you saying that people don’t have the words to describe what these stories mean without repeating the stories themselves? This I could believe.