Since this thread has largely veered from questions of what the actual practice is to opinions of what they should be, I am moving it to IMHO. I will leave it to the IMHO mods to decide whether it perhaps deserves to go to GD.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
The idea that people would ignore what you choose to be called is beyond bad manners, is insulting and demeaning, and just plain shitty.
How would your husband feel about being called “Mr. Mary Doe” or “Mr. Mary Roe?”
Sorry… Long Island, born and bred raised by traditional parents.
They didn’t ignore it unless her husband specifically said…“My wife doesn’t care for the tradition of being addressed as Mr and Mrs John Smith so please put her first name on the address”.
They may have asked and then were informed that tradition (usually…) dictates that Mr and Mrs John Smith is more formal and appropriate than Mr John Smith and Ms. Sally Smith on a wedding invitation.
http://www.yourwedding101.com/wedding-invitations/addressing-invitations.aspx
Don’t ask me why, but I htink ‘Jon Doe’ has become a symbol in my eyes, rather than a name, making this thread all the more confusing.
I must say I’m quite surprised anyone under 90 still uses Mrs. John Doe. How embarrassingly outdated and at least vaguely condescending.
I barely even use ‘Mrs.’, if I can avoid it.
Certainly feminism is about choice, but that doesn’t mean we can’t aim to change the social pressures and outdated customs that influence some choices.
As I was thinking about this thread, it occurred to me to ask about wedding invitations. Over my lifetime I have probably received fifty or so wedding invitations. EVERY ONE hosted by the parents, without exception, was written as follows:
Mr and Mrs John Smith Request the honor…
OR.
Ms Jane Doe request the honor…(for single moms)
OR
Mr and Mrs John Smith
and Ms Jane Doe (for parents that are divorced)
Etc.
NOT ONCE have I ever received an invitation that read.
John and Sally Smith request the honor…
Is that how it is usually done with your family and friends?
I introduce myself as both Mrs John Doe and Dangerosa Doe at my husband’s work functions, even though my last name is Smith.
(If my last name were Smith, I’d probably use that - my last name isn’t easy and I don’t expect my coworkers to remember it - and his last name provides context)
I’m one of those women who kept my own last name, but don’t get my panties in a bunch if people use my husband’s last name - provided I’m not paying them or they aren’t close enough that its reasonable for them to know.
I am with you. I didn’t take my husband’s name but certainly have no problem with mail addressed to Mr and Mrs John Smith. I do introduce myself to his friends and co workers as Sally Smith and not Sally Jones though. Why confuse the issue? I also use Sally Smith at our daughter’s school. My identity doesn’t revolve around what someone calls me. (Just don’t call me late for dinner… har har)
By the way, I as I said, I do expect people who should know my name (family, friends) to know and use my name. But I will use his as a convienence for other people who know me only in the context of him. As long as people aren’t calling me “hey, Bitch” it has little effect on my identity, independence, self esteem or feminist awareness if his aunt has never learned my last name or if his coworkers are unaware of my legal name. I’d rather have them call me Mrs. Doe (no reason to really call me Mrs. John Doe) than stumble for a name - first or last.
Sorry, post 67 should be “don’t expect HIS coworkers to remember it” - I do expect MY coworkers to know my real name…
There we have the opposite issue, they don’t know his last name. Although he is pretty reasonable about people assuming his name is John Smith…
Depends on what you think etiquette means, of course–the way I was brought up, the most appropriate way to address someone is how they want to be addressed. Basically, anything that comes to my house addressed to Mrs. Zer Zerlastname from someone who she’s talked to about it previously (looking right at you, grandpa) will cause my wife to pitch a wholly deserved rant.
I mean, if she thinks it’s insulting, and she took the time to let you know that in a polite way, in what world is it appropriate to continue doing something she’s alerted you that she finds insulting, especially when the alternative is not vulgar nor rude in and of itself.
Of the half-dozen or so invitations I’ve received from parents of the whoever, this is universally the format they’ve been in.
The majority of my friends self-funded even their first weddings so it was usually
“John Doe and Jane Smith request the honor of your presence at their marriage”
I read a wedding announcement from the 1960’s that read thusly:
Mr. Charles Russell Lea, Jr.
son of the late Mr. & Mrs. Charles Russell Lea Sr.
and stepson of Mrs. Charles Russell Lea Sr.
Which if you read my reply other than what you quoted, you would notice I wrote that it depends if the husband made the person doing the inviting AWARE that the wife finds the tradition insulting.
I was assuming they asked the name to be polite and wasn’t told she gets upset if it is done any other way.
I really do find this thread intriguing. Apparently it isn’t an age thing. Doesn’t seem to be a location thing. PA and IN are north but I am from NY and have friends and family in Mass, NJ and CT and it has always been done Mr and Mrs John Smith. Nationality? Race? Education? Culture? Income?
Hmmm.
Not a wedding invitation, but when I was 17 I did recieve a very strangely address thank you not. My mother & I were the only family members from his side to attend my uncle’s 2nd wedding (it was a small house wedding). No formal invitations at all. My new aunt did send thank you cards out to everyone. Wanna guess how she addressed our thank you card?
Mr & Mrs Alpha Boi. :eek: Later she realized how bizarre it looked.
All the above - which is why I try (though I’m not always successful - some people I’m just contrary with) not to get my panties in a bunch over what I’m called - as long as people are being respectful. What respectful means varies so much from person to person that I think the safest assumption is that people are not trying to insult you.
If, over time, someone manages to repeatedly show that my assumption about their good intentions are mistaken, then I can throw them in the “asshole” bucket.
Your location tag says “Central Florida”, which is most assuredly in the south. Granted I assumed, but I had no reason to believe you were originally from New York.
And “traditional” in what? Upper class WASP culture? Appalacian mountain folk? Orthodox Jew? It’s not like the US has ever been homogenous.
First of all, WHY do you asssume it was a wedding? Did I say “wedding” anywhere in that post? No. It wasn’t a wedding.
Second, since my husband is VERY aware of how I feel he simply would not mention my name in that context without also mentioning my feelings about the subject. It just would not happen the way you suggest. You’re grasping at straws here.
Yes, that is usually how it’s done in the circles I live in, except when the marrying parties host it themselves, which is actually much, much more common among my friends and family.
I don’t care how “traditional” that horrible custom is - I don’t go to weddings I’m not invited to. Period. Either address an invitation by my proper name or I simply won’t be there. I won’t RSVP to something addressed to another person either. It’s unlikely, but if I’m ever invited to the White House they better freakin’ put MY name in the invitation or the same applies. Ditto for the Queen of England or the Galactic Emperor.
I have only had to act on that once - and, in fact, it was a wedding I did not attend. Horror amongst the elder relatives ensured. I didn’t care. After that, no one has made that mistake ever again and my family and friends now grant me the dignity of MY OWN name.
Leaving aside that is makes no sense to ask a person’s name and then not use it there is absolutely no chance my husband would tell them my name without letting them know my feelings on the subject.
Now, if someone has never met me before and doesn’t know me and asks “Are you Mrs. Doe?” I have no problem with that - it’s just another way to ask if I’m John Doe’s wife. Ask me if I’m Mrs John Doe I’ll say no - John Doe is my husband, I am Jane Smith-Doe.
I expect “liberal college town” and “I know lots of feminists” might well be it.
You, as in Americans as a whole, tend to be somewhat conservative, so you cling to old offensive traditions, be they surrendering one’s name to a male spouse, or resisting gay marriage, or melding church and state.