I don’t know why people doubt that Ivanka is now Jewish. It’s not like joining the Christian camp where you say the magic words and get dunked (or sprinkled, depending on sect). Conversion to Judaism requires study and commitment, it’s not done quickly or on a whim, particularly not a conversion under Orthodox Judaism which is the one she had. Apparently she’s been observant for 12 years now. That’s a bit more than lip service and a conversion of convenience.
I suppose it’s the flip of referring to a devoted Christian as a “converted Jew” instead of a Christian, as if there’s some mystical barrier that prevents an actual conversion.
Do you seriously think that conversion is the same for people a rich as the Kushners? It’s no different than anything else. If you have money, the rules don’t need to apply - and that includes God’s rules
Two of my best friends are Trumpers and not religious at all. The one seems to worship at the altar of Contrarianism - I’m pretty sure he likes Trump cuz no one else around him does, the same way he likes kale and smooth jazz.
You know as soon as I typed that I thought “wow that makes him seem like a total hipster!” but he’s very far from that. He’s just an over-confident buffoon who goes around not thinking much about anything until one day he “discovers” something and suddenly it’s his favorite thing ever and he’s an expert at it. It was all just annoying and quirky for years until Trump came along.
It’s painful to watch. We’ve been best friends for over 25 years.
I totally get the contrarian impulse. It’s why I don’t go to demonstrations - put me in the middle of a crowd of people who agree with me, and at some point I’ll turn on them. I can’t help it.
Do you think it’s impossible for someone wealthy to make a genuine conversion?
You seem to doubt her conversion because 1) she’s a Trump and 2) she’s rich. On the other hand, it seems that she has been observant as an Orthodox Jew for 12 years. I suppose it’s possible for it all to be a sham, but most people don’t have the self-discipline to keep up a facade that long, and if she does have that level of self-discipline she sure as hell didn’t get it from daddy.
Given that she converted in 2009, before daddy ran for President and because at such time I can’t see how becoming Jewish would hold any advantage for her, I’m not inclined to think it was all part of some master plan.
Is that what that was? I thought it was stupid when I thought it was the hilt of a sword that was tucked in his pants, like the" cool gangster" types that have a gun butt tattooed so it looks like it’s tucked in their pants. Thor’s hammer is even stupider.
There are tons of old Jews in Florida who love Trump. Nobody who has spent time around Florida should be at all surprised that the Jewish “Florida Man” and the Christian “Florida Man” are still the same breed.
Converting for your spouse-to-be - or for their family - is actually fairly common.
Look, I’m not saying she’s lying, I just have no reason to believe she’s telling the truth. After all, she’s the member of two separate crime families.
Does anyone know whether she converted, and then later met her husband-- in other words, had already been Jewish when she married, after having converted, “on her own,” so to speak, or if she converted “for” her husband, so to speak.
In my experience, solo conversions are usually sincere, lasting, and result in someone very observant, while the ones done just for marriage do not result in someone very observant, and do not outlast the marriage (whether it ends by divorce or death). It may appear to “work” during the marriage, but it is the born-Jewish partner doing all the work.
There are exceptions both ways-- I’m speaking in generalities.
One my questions to see how much I trusted her conversion would be how much her statements and actions align with the beliefs of the religion she converted to.
This is not specific to Judaism—it’s also what I do when I consider if someone really became a Christian or not. For example, Donald Trump very clearly did not.
I could point to one of the women in my widow’s group who was introduced to Judaism when she met the man who would become her husband, converted, and after he passed away continued to be an observant Jew … but anecdote is not data and there are plenty of examples that go the other way.
On the other hand, it seems that regardless of why she converted she herself seems to be observant in accord with Modern Orthodox. Meaning she and Jared observe a lot of rules but not all of them all of the time, and certainly not to the standard of the Ultra-Orthodox… but then no one but the Ultra-Orthodox do that.
Given her in-laws seem to accept her now I view that as another indication it might have “taken” in a real sense. Would that survive the end of marriage? We won’t know unless/until that happens.
And about those in-laws…
Yeah, well, there are bigoted Jewish people as well, what can I say? And Jared and Ivanka do seem to be two peas in a pod. Personally, I think they’re both awful people but they are enough alike to be bookends.
Ivanka observes the rules as much (and as little) as the typical Modern Orthodox… which is to say mostly but not entirely. Apparently she learned to cook so she could prepare Sabbath meals, although she and Jared have been spotted eating at non-kosher restaurants in DC - like most other Jews in the area because apparently there aren’t a lot of kosher options in the area. They also reportedly turn off phones/TV/internet on the Sabbath, don’t handle money or monetary transactions on the Sabbath, keep kosher in their home, and so on. Given the spotlight on Ivanka (a small one before daddy became president, a larger one afterward) I’d expect cheating to be spotted. I mean, she could be sneaking bacon and shrimp cocktails in the linen closet at home and secretly wearing underwear that is a mix of wool and linen but I sort of doubt it. She has never made a claim to observe every single rule and has publicly stated that they’re more observant than some and less so than others. So her behavior so far seems consistent with the other Jews in her sect and social circle.
Until proven otherwise I lean towards accepting her conversion. You all are, of course, free to have other opinions.
As for the Donald - he didn’t convert, he was raised Presbyterian so it really didn’t require any thought or effort on his part, it just sort of happened.
Anyhow - any other Trumpists that aren’t Christian? And any that are neither Christian nor Jewish that are publicly known?
(I’m assuming that Trump has fans among the White Nationalist branch of Norse/Asatru - at which point I hasten to add not everyone following those NeoPagan traditions are bigoted assholes, just some of them - but I doubt there are any well known to the public.)
Ivanka observes the rules as much (and as little) as the typical Modern Orthodox… which is to say mostly but not entirely.
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Thank you for the info. It sounds like there are much more food–based restrictions than moral ones. The moral ones were where I thought she might not follow.
There was that one time he claimed that he had not ever asked God to forgiven him (claiming he’d never sinned). Under most definitions of Christianity I know of, that would make him not a Christian.
There were memes going around claiming he had repented and become a Christian. My response was that he clearly hadn’t, since he didn’t adhere to any of the (mroal) requirements, (or, to put it the Christian way: lacked any of the signs of the Fruit of the Spirit). If he did convert, it was just for show or something he reneged on.
I am aware that this sort of quick conversion process is not how it works in other religions. But it was thinking about why I don’t believe Donald is a Christian that made me question if Ivanka really converted or just did it for show to please her in-laws.
Well… she may not be following some of the moral ones, but the overlap between moral prescription for Jews and Christians is pretty large. I mean, both groups are monotheistic, ban murder, adultery, stealing, etc., the dietary laws are one of the areas where there actually is a marked difference.
Yeah, but those were justificatory claims from the followers – AFAIK he did not at any point after that infamous quote actually make a manifestation of repenting and Coming To Jesus.
And yes, claiming you have nothing for which to ask God for forgiveness would be heretical if you claim to be a Christian.
