Obama has the mandate. The loonies know that and from the moment he took office they were screaming their noise like children frustrated because they know there is nothing they can do for four years. Obama should press on before his massive support feels him wavering. He should have devised a plan in place ready to go before he took office.
The US has always been close to fascism. It generally has a very high regard for militarisation and conformity, and corporate enterprises easily hold its government to ransom. The recent bail-out has placed very few controls on what the bailed-out do with public money and they appear ready to go on doing what they have done with other people’s money before - stuff it in their own accounts. Under Socialism, government controls corporations for public benefit, under Fascism, corporations control government for corporate benefit.
Fair enough. But I don’t think a German-style jackboot state is required for a fascism. It is more about hijacking the democratic process as I understand it. Lawrence Britt identified 14 characteristics of fascism. Some to do with business:
Not a perfect fit, sure. Anyway, I don’t think I’m prepared to take the position that we are fascist, though I think some of the elements are there and some recent developments are disturbing. I’m still trying to sort it out.
But, that’s not fascism, that’s more like traditionalist-authoritarianism, as in Franco’s Spain or Pinochet’s Chile. (Fascism requires a lot more imagination. Here’s a good source on that.)
The factors cited, though, could just as easily have been applied to Gilded Age and turn of the 20th century America.
And just something from way back on the first page that bugged me:
There is no district attorney of the U.S. That’s like saying there’s a police chief of the United States. Using the right terminology is key to credibility.
Okay, Attorney General. Happy now? A mere slip of the tongue, and it does nothing to refute the fact I presented.
This whole thread is so amusing, mainly because I hear a lot of right wingers squawking about concentration camps being set up for Obama’s plans to suspend the Constitution and take over the country. Seems they’re planning to use the swine flu as a cover for setting up a Stalinist state. That one ain’t gonna happen, either.
I like to play around with the definition of “fascism”. I think it’s pretty unlikely that the US will become a fascist state with all the familiar trappings, but in a mild sense, fascism can be something as simple as “political bullying”. To use force or intimidation or damning denunciations or other heavy-handed tactics to silence your opposition can be regarded as behaving in a fascist-esque manner.
Years ago I read about an incident where a campus newspaper was set to publish a conservative counterpoint to a racial issue, but in the early morning hours a group of black students siezed and destroyed the paper’s entire run. This act was subsequently described as fascist.
The idea of the nation as a religion could also be considered fascism, such as if the nation is regarded as infallible as though it were God, or if national symmbols are worshipped as sacred. So a law against flag desecration might be regarded as a tiny example of fascism.
I’ve described the extreme backlast to the Dixie Chicks’ remarks about Bush as a form of fascism. As obsessed as fascists are with fighting external enemies, they’re at least as obsessed with “disloyalty” tend to denounce dissent as “treason”.
More basically, fascism can be where you take the basic idea around which a large group is formed and amp it up to the point of extremism. This idea is usually the nation, but it can be a religion - we often speak of Islamo-fascism and even Christo-fascism.
To get even more controversial (or half-baked), you could even characterize communism (or Stalinism) as fascist-style socialsm. Take the socialist ideal, take it to extremes, enforce it with extreme authoritarianism, throw in some goose-stepping, and there you have it.
When Ike warned us about the military ,industrial, media complex, he was talking about fascism. The control of those facets of our lives are Fascist techniques. Endless wars against vaguely subversive enemies has been our standard. Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan are not attacking America. We endlessly arm and equip for wars, calling it defense. We have the most advanced arms in the world. We could have done much for the world if we did not waste trillions on it.
Declaring these enemies are after our freedoms, yet must give our right up to protect them, has been weird logic. But the military controls the message now. I hope Obama does better, but I have little faith.
Note, I saw Ikes speech writer on TV and he said Ike wanted the media included but they took it out at the last minute.
No, I don’t think fascism boils down to anything that you think is ‘bad’. For me the hijacking of the democratic process is the key element- thanks to everyone else who is sharing their perspective on this.
What is sticking in my craw right now is the fact that Obama won the election, quite handily thank you, on a platform containing (and correct me if I’m wrong) health care for all Americans. I took that as a public option at the time, though I suppose there are other ways to go about it. In any case, did an impressive majority not vote for this?
And yet, the insurance companies are pulling their strings with congresscritters while also being the people behind the teabag/extreme protest movement (Rachel Maddow explained the connection, I’ll try to find that link). And Fox is getting in on the act spreading all kinds of bs. The result is that health care is being watered down more and more, against the will of the voters as I see it. So whose government is it? Last I checked though my local streets weren’t clogged with maniacal protesters. It seems mostly a media phenomenon!
And so the democratic process seems disrupted in the kind of ways that fit Britt’s definition of fascism. On some points anyway.
I take the elites to be those with the most influential roles. Rachel Maddow discusses some of the people behind the teabag movement. Guys like former GOP Majority leader Dick Armey have a lot of skills that are useful to the latest officeholders, and corporations pay them big bucks for lobbying and quasi-propagandistic media/publicity efforts. This clip goes into some who are funding the anti-health care reform effort (it’s Freedomworks for one- I couldn’t find the clip where she goes more in depth into the connection between them and the teabaggers) and why it is dishonest. Not exactly Darth Vader, just retired repubs and various corporate chiefs.
Liberal elites? I still feel like ‘liberal’ is only something one can be accused of being. Not something that is specifically real outside talk-radio-world.
Pulled from a thread in the Pit, here’s an article about the phenomenon of ‘eliminationism’ that pulls together an entirely different constellation of fascist data points. It is in reference to a book on the subject, here’s a quote:
I suppose it is debatable whether or not this is a ‘signature trait of fascism’ or not, but I don’t think it is debatable that we have been witnessing it from the right over the past year.
The story of [Joe Miller’s private security guards handcuffing a reporter for asking him questions he didn’t like"]Joe Miller’s private security guards handcuffing a reporter for asking him questions he didn’t like](http://www.adn.com/2010/10/17/1506223/miller-security-guards-handcuff.html) has me reviving this thread.
I am sure this event is being discussed elsewhere in the board, but look how perfectly this one picks up where this thread left off:
I’ve heard Miller on the radio defending his actions by saying that too many people are trying to make the campaign about things that are ‘irrelevant’, namely his record. So! Now candidates, instead of voters, decide what is relevant, and arrest anyone who disagrees. Fits perfectly in context with the rest of this thread.
