For those of you who can’t get time out to work, have you tried making time out… stricter? In our house, it is on your knees, nose to the wall, hands folded behind your back. 2 minutes for a 2 year old, 3 minutes for a 3 year old, 4 minutes for a 4 year old, etc. I’ve been doing this since they were 2, and my oldest is about to turn 5.
I don’t have a problem with spanking, but I am working on doing it less and less so that it becomes the Really Scary Bad Punishment in their minds.
I’m a very mean Mommy. I won’t allow my kids to go play with their friends if I don’t know the parents, I won’t allow my kids to play in the front yard without me standing there to watch them and I don’t let them fight on the stairs. Since my kids have gotten old enough to understand my words (they are 5 and 4) I don’t really need time outs or swats on the diapers, I find “THE LOOK” works for me. They figured out pretty early that “THE MOMMY VOICE” is a bluff but “THE LOOK” still does work when I get it right.
Dream on. Yours is from Illinois. Mine’s a VIRGINIAN. We know how to inflict damage down here.
Chiming in on ‘time-out’:
We (my wife and I) have used spankings-they are limited to occaisons of imminent (potential) harm to themselves or others. Trying to run out in the street, etc. Time-outs were used for less serious problems, and generally worked well.
The kids are five and seven now, and I’ve pretty much eliminated time-outs. They’ve grown into their own people, with the ability to clearly communicate needs and desires and to understand ours. And the best discipline, I’ve found, is enforcing sheer logical consequences of misbehavior.
I mentioned this in a Pit thread some time ago, but it’s worth bringing up again. One of our discipline success stories has been with their restaurant/movie theater behavior. They have a short list of rules to obey in this situation: sit quietly and eat/watch the movie, speak quietly with each other or parents (‘quietly’ meaning whispers in the theater), get up only to go to the bathroom, which trip is done quietly at a walking pace.
First violation: go outside with Mommy or Daddy to go over all of these rules again-can’t go back in until understanding and agreement have been expressed in an appropriate manner. Second violation: go home. No exceptions, and no pity. “Daddy-I promise I’ll obey the rules now!” “Great! I can’t wait to see how well you behave next time we go to a restaurant.!” It’s quite simple-if they can’t behave in a civilized manner, they can’t be in the public place.
The key is, you’ve got to actually follow through on the second violation. It’s a pain to have the food packed to go, or to leave the movie that we paid a ludicrous amount of money to see halfway through. But if you do, you’ll find that you don’t have to do it many times at all, and you save yourself untold hours of fighting with recalcitrant children on what are supposed to be enjoyable family outings. It’s been a long time since I’ve even had to take a child outside, and I regularly get compliments on what well-behaved children I have. (Yeah, but they don’t have to live with them. 
) And that’s without spankings, without time-outs, just with consistent, logical discipline.
Such a relief to find other MEAN parents 
Lately, we’ve received several frantic phone calls from friends of ours, requesting quick fixes to their teenagers problems.
Generalizing follows, but I think by the time a child becomes a teenager, it’s almost too late. The values that we MEAN parents have been teaching our children from the cradle, can’t be instilled in a one week crash course when a teenager is in the midst of rebellion against authority, especially against their parents. They can’t be quickly absorbed by either parent or teen while in crisis mode, from a book, a talk show host, or even a well meaning friend.
For those of you who have found time out to be successful, please accept my apologies. We didn’t find a need to implement time out with our children; therefore, I lump summed it in with the
rest of the “at all costs, preserve the childs’ fragile self esteem” hoopla. I’m happy it worked for you and yours 
I’ve enjoyed reading your responses … please keep them coming …
I speak from experience that it’s not too late when they’re teenagers.
It just takes the intervention of the Maryland Department of Corrections and 3.5 years of somewhat substandard state housing.
Trust me. You learn to toe the line.
…I can’t tell if you’re joking or not…
Adoptamom You still haven’t answered if you meant spanking here:
Or what “pop psycho mumbo jumbo” you’re referring to here:
or if you did, I missed it (sorry in advance if that is the case).
Parents out there-- any tips on disciplining a child who is too young for time outs, etc? My son is just over one year old and does some naughty stuff like hitting when he’s upset (ie wants to grab something he can’t have and I don’t let him). Saying “No honey, you can’t have that” in a gentle yet firm voice never works. Neither does saying “No, dont’ do that!” In a less gentle voice. Giving him something else to play with doesn’t always work. Usually doesn’t, in fact.
Any advice for the first time parents?
I only want to address the spanking issue. I got spanked all the time when I was a kid and not ONCE did I ever feel like I was being abused. So I’m all for ass whup’ns if its called for.
All though I will say I wont take it to the extreme my dad did, which would go something like this:
DAD: " did you clean your room"
ME: “yeah dad”
DAD: “are you sure?”
ME " uh huh"
DAD “becuase if I go in there and I find stuff outa place I’m gonna spank your ass”
ME “oh… well… let me go double check…”
Boy that used to fuck with my mind. But I still never felt like I was being abused.
I’m thankfull for the disipline my dad has given me. Knowing the kind of kid I used to be; I can’t say for sure that “time out” would have worked. :shrug:
as to the op… oh yeah.
Well. that’s a good point. It wasn’t the biggest deterrent to him. (He also was of course in charge of the pain in his head, and could stop any time, so I suppose it wasn’t THAT bad.) But what else was my mom to do, cut off a finger every time? He was young enough that even though he thought he could tough it out through the spanking, he never did. He always ended up crying.
And here’s my speech on spanking:
It seems like whenever I hear about how spanking is inherently evil, I hear one of two things:
This almost invariably is from the parent of a daughter. My mother also was touched I think twice her entire childhood. She just wasn’t the type to stand up and fight the power.
However, many kids are, and I’ll bet that 90%+ of the boys are. I don’t know what I would have done if I hadn’t known that there was something lurking in the background that I really didn’t like. My brothers and I consistently got compliments from older people about our behavior in restaurants. This wasn’t something we did conciously, but subconciously we knew that acting up was just out of the question. Do you want to get a spanking the first thing in the door at home?
I understand where this comes from, but thrashing kids or hitting them without warning is not spanking. Doing it right is what my mom did:
"That’s it. You have deliberately done things that simply cannot continue. I have tried to point this out, but you have ignored it. Come here. What happened? Why did you do that? Why is that wrong? Do you know why I need to do this? Ok, turn around. " (Whacking) (Crying) (Hug)
This lets the kid know that there won’t be random attacks, which is the basis of the fear. I agree with clearly announcing the spanking time and clearly discussing the reasons for it and what should have been done instead of the actual action. I never felt abused when it was done like this. When it wasn’t, or it wasn’t done for things that really warranted it, I did feel that way a bit, and I still do. They just weren’t done by my mom (cough).
Kezermezer asked:
As a couple of us have mentioned, sometimes with the wee ones, a swat on the behind (or hand) is the only effective way to get them to understand no means no. Pain is not your goal here, but the shock or “wake-up call” value of the swat is.
I labored under the mistaken impression that I’d never be able to “strike my child” under any circumstances. The first time you catch them trying to get the top off of the bottle of extra-strength Tylenol/Drain cleaner that they’ve somehow gotten out of the locked, bank-vault sealed medicine cabinet/kitchen sink cabinet, and you’re racing across the room telling them no, no, no, and being completely ignored…
A swat on the behind (which is really harmless when the kid’s still in diapers, usually) and, “I said NO,” becomes the last line of defense, as it were.
When they’re old enough (and this varies wildly from kid to kid) to understand you well, they can be reasoned with on most things.
“For the third and final time, do you want me to get a garbage bag and pick up all these toys myself? Well then, let’s get moving. I’ll help you put it all back in the toybox, but I’m not doing it all myself. They are your toys.”
And, as others have said, follow through. When you use this one, be prepared to start slinging toys into an empty garbage bag. For us, the stuff ends up in the bag, in the back of our closet for a while, though I’ve known parents to actually eighty-six the stuff for real. (My own, for one example.)
And (again, when they’re a bit older) the phrase, “I can’t understand you when you’re whining,” has been very good to me. I will answer or respond to any request, or protestation, if it is made in a fairly calm manner. Screaming at me that you want whatever it is right now, at the top of your lungs, gets ignored.
OTOH, kids is kids, and you’ve got to let them cut loose sometimes. Yeah it’s a pain to clean up afterwards when you let them make a fort out of the couch, and drag every stuffed animal they own out to man the battlements, but it’s fun, and usually amusing to take part in, too.
[sub]In fact, daddy fell asleep in the fort one Sunday afternoon, while mommy was putting the little one down for her nap, but we won’t discuss that now.[/sub]
No, why would I be? My kids didn’t understand how sitting in a chair was meant to be a punishment. They’d play and talk loudly, and end up getting a spanking. And, IMHO, it is always better to put kids into a situation to not misbehave, than to tempt them and end up spanking them. So, facing the wall with their hands behind their backs, they can’t play. They’re less likely to talk. It worked a LOT better.
Of course, I think that while my son was two when we started this, it occurs to me that he was probably nearly three. And there is a huge maturity difference between just turned two and nearly three.
Also, for very young kids (like my 9 month old), a very firm “no” and move the kid across the room with a toy. Distraction is key at that age.
Yes, Kezermezer, spanking is included in my list of old fashioned ways, as are line writing, extra chores, push ups and logical consequences.
As for my pop psycho mumbo jumbo comment, it’s easier to list who I don’t include in that list, rather than those I do:
Dr. James Dobson
John K. Rosemond
Foster Cline
That help? 
You all can talk but I have me a never-ending bundle of energy in my 1.5 year old son and he’d take all comers. He’s lots of fun with no fear and quite an incredible pain tolerance. Also, he’s stubborn as an ox.
There will be lots of issues raising my boy and, given that his present state of mind continues, he’ll get his share of whoopings.
I got spanked growing up and I too don’t believe I was ever abused. I was the type of kid who, if I thought the activity was worth the punishment, I did it anyway. Needless to say, I was a little bit of trouble. but it was always done in love. I knew what I had done wrong, I knew the penalty (in some cases, my dad would make me admit that I knew the punishment was a spanking…I hated that) and deserved it. I never was spanked due to allegations. I had to be hard evidence and quite the violation to get a spanking.
Also, I think with each child, parents have to learn how to discipline them. I don’t think there is a cut and dry equation. Just as each child relates to people differently or learns differently, the punishments must also be doled out on an individual basis. Spanking didn’t really work with me cuz I could way the effects of the short lived pain of a spanking versus the pleasure I would get from the activity. The worst punishment I ever got (I won’t go into why but it was a doozy!!), I walked in the door, my dad looked at me and very calmly said “I’ve never been more dissappointed in you.” and walked out. Didn’t talk to me for 2 days as he was too angry, that’s what was explained to me. WOW!! I did not do that again.
But it’s up the parent to learn to identify with each of their children.
HOLY TYPING MISTAKES BATMAN!!
is supposed to read
Also
should be
Sorry for the typos…
LOL…I have to concentrate more
now I’m just going to go give myself a timeout for this SPAM. Sorry.
Thanks for the answers Adoptamom.
My problem with spanking is that when I do it (or did) it was always out of anger. I inherited my temper from my dad and I don’t want to encourage the tendency in my son. Also, my son never learned that what he was doing was wrong, he just got hurt and scared. Since he’s already showing signs of a temper and tendency to hit, I really want to discourage that type of thing.
Skeezix, I guess my comment about “no children – just grandchildren” is a bit of a tease. I have born no children on my own, but I married a widower with three incredible young adult children. Now I get all the fun of being a grandparent without all of the responsibility of raising a child.
This poem is for the meanest parents, and me included
The Meanest Parents
I had the meanest parents in the world. While other kids ate candy for breakfast, I had to have cereal, eggs, and toast. When others had coke and candy for lunch, I had to eat a sandwich. As you can guess my dinner was different from the the other kids. My parents insisted on knowing where I was at all times. They had to know who my frineds were and what we where doing. They instisted that if I told them I would be gone an hour, I would be gone for an hour or less. I’m ashamed to admit it, but they actually had the nerve to make us kids work. We had to wash dishes, make beds, and learn to cook. I believe they stayed awake at night, thinking up things for me to do! By the time I became a teen-ager, they had grown even meaner. They emabarrassed me by making my dates come to the front door to pick me up. And while my friends were dating at the mature ages of 12 and 13, my old-fashioned parents refused to let me date until I was 16. In spite of the harsh way I was raised, I’ve never been arrested. And all my brothers and sisters turned out OK, too. I guess we owe it all to our mean parents. They insisted that we grow up into God-fearing, honest, responsible adults. I’m grateful to God that He gave me the meanest parents in the world!!!
Author Unkown
Zoe, that was pretty much what I was thinking, but if I’ve learned nothing else in my time reading these boards, I’ve at least learned not to assume much of anything.
With that cleared up, may I say, on behalf of those of us that have to put up with the responsibility, before getting to the fun, that we hate you?
[sub]Levity folks, relax and lower your weapons, this was only a drill.[/sub]
well, I definitely qualify as a mean parent. I have a daughter 12, and a son 9. Nutritious meals (even though my son hates vegetables with a passion), reasonable bedtimes, thorough homework checks and plenty o’family events are horrible things to inflict on kids. Oddly enough my son seems to thrive on this treatment and rarely needs disciplining.
My daughter on the other hand is the drama queen from hell. She’s lost almost all her room furnishings and privileges for her poor academic performance last quarter. We changed schools for her and are having her evaluated for learning disabilities, but the revoking of privileges seems to have had little efffect. She flies off the handle about even minor things, and is incredibly rude and offensive when she gets upset. Which is a daily occurance. Threatens to run away, etc… . I never had a sister, but is this behavior normal? I have no idea how to react to this stuff. Oh, and she has been seeing a counselor for the past 6 months. Hasn’t made a damn bit if difference that we’ve seen.