:dubious: They’re all known to be fictional. Anti-abortion fanatics are not fictional; they have created a great deal of suffering, often while outright gloating about it. They like it when women die because of them.
We’re all slaves to our hormones, both men and women. Pregnant women just tend to have the fact rubbed in their face hard enough that they have trouble pretending otherwise.
Exactly. It seems pretty obvious that this line of attack, just like the CPCs, is an attempt to evangelize.
I don’t use anti-abortionist, because for now we don’t see many of these people lining up to support a proven way to collapse the abortion rate: subsidized LARCs (IUDs and implants) and sex ed. Some of them are, and a small few genuinely anti-abortion folks have for a long time (from the very hardcore straight-edge community; I read a note in a CD booklet from one band stating that their vegan stances led them to oppose abortion, but they totally rejected opposing abortion through laws).
I don’t call them pro-life, since very few of them seem to oppose war.
Or the death penalty.
Pro-life is just such a transparently loaded phrase. “I’m pro-life!” “Oh, you mean you’re against wars?” “Nope, voted for the republican party!” “Oh, you mean you’re against the death penalty?” “Nope, support that too!” “Oh, so you mean you’re in favor of ending starvation in the US?” “Nope, I voted to cut government spending on anti-poverty programs!” It’s just so meaningless. Be honest - you’re not pro-life, you’re anti-abortion.
Smoking weed comes to mind. Not that I personally agree it’s other people’s business, but as of right now in over half of the West, it is.
Uhhh…because they are anti-abortion. The whole pro-life label offends me as a wordsmith.
How do you feel about them’s labeling us “pro-abortion”? A word Alcorn uses in his book, stating “To be pro-choice is to be pro-abortion.”
Ironically, while “anti-abortion” more or less concisely sums up the pro-life position adequately and neutrally, “pro-abortion” is a complete misrepresentation of the pro-choice position.
In Randy Alcorn’s book, he writes about how the press is so “pro-abortion” because they use the words “pro-choice” and “anti-abortion,” making one side “good” and one side “bad.”
My mother is the only pro-abortion person I know. She really thinks not enough abortions happen.
Personally, I can’t wrap my head around things like people going to term with a fetus with a lethal defect, like anencephaly, but I recognize that it isn’t my business. Other than my mother, I don’t know anyone who thinks abortion should be legal, but who doesn’t think the decision whether or not to have one in any particular case should rest entirely with the woman who is pregnant.
I even know some Orthodox Jews who are in their own minds against abortion, and to them it does feel like “killing a baby,” but they still don’t believe in outlawing abortion, because they recognize that their moral objection is not everyone’s, and shouldn’t be legislated anymore than bacon should be illegal.
I suppose there are probably people who are not completely anti-abortion, just anti-women-making-choices. They’d like to go back to the days when women could get abortions if they went before a hospital board to plead their case, and a panel of men (it was always men before R v. W, and I’m sure these people imagine it as men again) would decide whether or not to grant them an abortion.
I’d be OK with calling anti-abortionists “anti-choice,” but I’m not OK with calling them “pro-life.”
I actually remember a time when they were OK with being called “anti-abortion.” I’m not sure what changed. They just don’t want to be perceived as “anti” anything, I guess. Good luck with that.
No group wants to be called ‘anti’ anything anymore. It sounds too negative in the public eye.
I’m anti-torture. I’m anti-death penalty, anti-starvation, anti-racism, anti-sexism…
No. I don’t think your reasoning works. When the thing that comes after the anti is something I’m actually against, I have no problem being called “anti” it.
I tend to call myself “pro abortion rights” when I’m getting into such a discussion. I’d be happy to call it “anti forced birth” too.
Which is asinine if abortion is bad. You know, like it is in his head. Being anti-<bad thing> does not make your side “bad”. But even then, you don’t get to randomly and arbitrarily rename your position. If you are against the death penalty, you don’t get to call yourself “pro-justice” just because you dislike the label “anti-X”. If you are against something, label yourself as such.
Yeah. I have absolutely no problem with being called anti-vivisectionist, anti-DOMA, anti-death penalty, or even anti-KKK, if the occasion calls for it. I’m also anti-woo, in that I find it highly objectionable that the NIH actually has a well-funded program devoted to “alternative and complimentary medicine.”
Come to think of it, I’m also really more anti-Republican than I am a true Democrat.
Yeah, I’m not anti-anti either!
/Pro-anti.
And yet you continue to insist on characterizing them (even within that sentence) in terms that are really more suited to those fictional characters I asked you about than to living, breathing, political-power-wielding human beings.
That right there is why some 15-30%* of the flak you get here on the Dope comes from people on your side, you dolt.
*WAG, based entirely on my personal observations.
Because they are genuinely that awful. And I’m not going to pretend that they aren’t just because it’s taboo to admit just how vicious the Right and the religious are.
That’s low by a factor of at least 2, IMO.
Bahh. Some of them might be that awful, but considering that many change sides over the course of their lives, many of them are just misguided.
Sometimes good people have the wrong opinions.
All bigots think they are really telling the truth.
I was born in 1961, and adopted at 4 days old. Had abortion been legal and accessible in 1961 I doubt I’d be here, and that though doesn’t bother me one bit. I’ve enjoyed my life so far, but I really don’t think my not being born would have changed anything much, except possibly for a double handful of animals in need of homes. I’m absolutely 100% pro-choice, and until we as a society find a way to make birth control affordable and available and effective for EVERYone, I think abortion is not as evil as bringing an unwanted child onto this overcrowded planet.