Are you feeling enough shame and guilt, you bad women?

The BBQ Pit
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[Quote=Ranger Jeff]

My high school buddy’s wife was conceived out of wedlock around 1960. So, she sees a pro-choice view as someone saying she should have been aborted. So she’s pro-life / anti-abortion, and their children were raised to believe that. About 6 years ago, their then 19 year old unmarried daughter, W, got pregnant. Abortion was never an option for her. She decided on an open adoption. So the real parents of Josh and W stay in contact via email and visits are made. And every year there’s a pile of packages under my friend’s Exmas tree from his bio-mother, grandparents, aunts, and uncle for Josh.
[/quote]

Oh, please. That proves absolutely nothing.

People do not get more pro-choice than Whoopi Goldberg. When her 16 year old daughter told Whoopi she was pregnant and planned on keeping the baby, Whoopi was fine with that choice. She supported her daughter and her grandson in every way.

When a friend of mine lost her 4 year old son to a murder/suicide by his father, we set up and advertised a fund to help with her expenses. Planned Parenthood set a nice note with a check. She did not hear from one “pro-life” organization. Not even a card.

Yeah, they really care about dead fetuses. Not so much dead babies.

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BTW, where do they get all the dead fetuses they use in the ads and posters? Far be it from me to accuse them of using rubber dolls and fake blood, but birth isn’t that bloody, so I doubt an abortion is, and those are pretty late-term fetuses on the signs. Do they wait until some anti-abortion women is unlucky enough to have a late-term, spontaneous miscarriage, then have a little photo-op before disposing of the body? or do they raid medical waste bins? I know I saw one picture where I was pretty certain the fetus was anencephalic, but according to the poster label, the “baby” had had it “brains sucked out” in a “partial-birth” abortion. That could have been a late-term miscarriage, or the abortion of a planned pregnancy, when the fetus turned out to be anencephalic, for all the poster-maker knew. I’m willing to bet he Googled up the image, and added some blood with Photoshop.

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When I was in college (early 2000s), there were a lot of accusations pointed at the anti-choicers stating that they used pictures from miscarriages, autopsies, or war atrocities (specifically from Iraq), and that very, very few were photos from clinic abortions. I don’t have any sites on me, but I do remember seeing several pictures that were very obviously nothing more than miscarried, deformed fetuses.

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There’s just something about a man, any man, who has an opinion, any opinion, about abortion that strikes me as completely foolish. Replace ‘abortion’ the phrase ‘wearing a bra’, and you’ll see how foolish these men sound, every last one of them. Men need to shut up when before their betters.

The word ‘abortion’ does not appear in the Bible. Christians just add this prohibition even though the Bible says not to add or delete stuff. Ah, but the Bible does speak to extra-marital sex in many many places. So, remember that about ‘pro-life’ Christians … they’re having an affair behind their spouse’s back, or are actively seeking such. God wants you to fight against unmarried sex, stupid, not the heathen’s right to abortions.

Christ is disappointed that the Children of Cain slaughter their children, but the Children of Cain slaughter all their children, not just unborn ones.

“And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.” – Genesis 1:29.

From Lust, John B.; The Herb Book; Bantam Books, New York; 1973; I have the following herbs that bear seed catagorized as Abortifacients (an agent that induces or causes premature expulsion of a fetus):

Celery (Apium graveolens)
Common Groundsel (Senecio vulgaris), not for veterinary use
Cotton (Gossypium spp.)
Hedge Hyssop (Gratiola officinalis), medically supervised use only
Horseradish (Armoracia lapathifolia)
Mistletoe (Phoradendron flavescens and Viscum album), medically supervised use only
Pennyroyal (Hedeoma pulegioides and Mentha pulegium)
Peruvian Bark (Cinchona spp.), medically supervised use preferred
Ragwort (Senacio aureua), not for veterinary use
Shepherd’s Purse (Capsella bursa-pastoris)
Tansy (Tanacetum vulgare), medically supervised use only

Please heed warnings on some of these herbs.

So, God did indeed gave us rust, but coat hangers come from human-kind.

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And the pro-life view of miscarriage isn’t so great, either.

Why don’t they go after women who miscarry? Maybe she caused the miscarriage and should be charged with murder.

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I wouldn’t have known that from my ‘pro-life’ relatives! One young lady miscarried at approximately 8 weeks; she wears a very elaborate pendant with the name she and her husband had selected for their first male baby, and her occupation on Facebook is listed as “Mommy”. The miscarriage was mourned by her sisters (again, publicly on Facebook) as if she had lost a full-term baby.

By contrast, her mother had several miscarriages, and has never spoken of them.

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Please don’t take the experiences of one person as indicative of how all pro-life people feel about being consistent about any baby that dies.

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I agree that not all abortion opponents are so drastically inconsistent in their personal attitudes towards individual fetal deaths caused by spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) versus induced abortion.

However, I think there’s no gainsaying the fact that the anti-abortion movement as a whole tends to blithely ignore the comparatively huge impact of spontaneous abortion on pre-born life. It’s estimated that somewhere over one-half of all fertilized ova fail to survive, which is absolutely immense compared to the proportion that are deliberately killed by induced abortion.

But what does the self-described “pro-life” movement worry about? Induced abortion. :dubious: It’s as though we had (heaven forbid) an epidemic of infectious disease killing over half of the nation’s toddlers every year, and a huge vocal militant “Save the Toddlers” movement devoted instead to protesting the comparatively small number of toddlers killed through accidents, abuse or neglect.

I get that they’d still think that accidental or criminal killings of toddlers are a bad thing, but come on people, priorities much?!?

Likewise, if you sincerely believe that an embryo or fetus is a fully human person from the moment of fertilization onwards, then sure, you would naturally oppose induced abortion. But completely ignoring the much greater number of deaths due to spontaneous abortion and not even considering it part of the “pro-life” cause? That’s not rational.

A movement that was really serious about the cause of protecting fetal life would focus much more attention and resources on developing medical techniques to increase the survival rates of embryos and fetuses that would otherwise die spontaneously. They’d save a hell of a lot more “pre-born” lives that way than they would by attempting to ban the relatively small number of deliberately induced abortions.

But the “pro-life” movement doesn’t seem at all interested in recognizing the “pre-born” as fully human persons in any context except that of prohibiting induced abortion. To take another example, where are the Social Security numbers and census tallies and other official documentation of fetal personhood? They don’t exist. What does the “pro-life” movement seem to want done about that? Jack shit.

This combination of attitudes on the part of the “pro-life” movement implies pretty strongly that they’re not really about recognizing and protecting the life of “pre-born individuals” in general. They’re about restricting the autonomy of pregnant women in particular.

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Turns out the subject of the OP is a racist, too. I’m utterly shocked.

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OMG, someone who feels threatened by women also feels threatened by minorities? I, too, am shocked, shocked, I tell you!

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I can’t see his posts anymore, thank the Lord, but I can read what others quote. And it is beyond hilarious. It’s always telling when people defend scum like that and then their other reprehensible behaviors come to light. Makes you want to ask those folks; “How’s that white knighting working out for you now?” Since bigoted fuckchuckles are bigoted fuckchuckles in everything. Keep on jousting, my friends!

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What, even women whose siblings have children?! Damn!

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They do.

The only real goal of the “anti-abortion” movement is to tyrannize, torment and kill women. Everything else is just an excuse for doing so.

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Well said! But let’s not forget the killing of male doctors and clinic workers.

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The leadership is. Many of the ordinary people involved do not share those beliefs. It does not help when you demonize them. A friend of mine is anti-choice. She’s also a good person, a pediatrics nurse who is heavily involved in pro-vaccine activism. I do not agree with her on this issue but I respect her.

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There are roughly four million live births in the US each year. There are roughly one million abortions each year in the US. Given that 15-20% of pregnancies where the women knows she’s pregnant end in miscarriage, that’s about one million known miscarriages. In the same ballpark.

In any case, just because folks are trying to stop the active killing of humans doesn’t mean they don’t care about miscarried babies or that they aren’t contributing to prenatal care, March of Dimes and many other causes. It’s like saying because someone is against euthanasia – but what about the people who die of old age or terminal illness. What are these supposed pro-lifers doing about that??

It’s the difference between thinking we should be a society that doesn’t kill people to accepting that however sad, and of course it’s sad, people do die of natural causes at every stage of life.

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Do you want every miscarriage to be investigated as a “potential homicide”? Maybe the pregnant woman drank some coffee, took an aspirin, or “thought bad thoughts” about the “baby.”

I read in some anti-abortion tract that the abortion is the drug taker’s friend. A pregnant junkie is “off the hook” if she has an abortion.

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That’s probably a reference to the fact that law enforcement and social services have been very aggressive in the last ten years or so, in arresting and prosecuting women who deliver babies positive for any drug, for delivering illegal substances to a minor, or other laws that were meant to make punishments harsher for drug dealers who sold to minors.

The end result is that pregnant addicts don’t seek prenatal care, and don’t go to hospitals to deliver, and so their babies die shortly after birth, or are late-term miscarriages/stillbirths.

The last thing you want is to have high-risk women delivering at home, usually unassisted, and having their drug-positive babies got without treatment, but that’s what happens with such Draconian law enforcement. Babies who need help the most don’t get it.

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Good luck with that guy, Lavender Blue.

If you ever do find someone who can get him to dial it back, though, latch onto that person, and sic 'em on the anti-vaxxers. 'Cos there’s some serious mojo right there. :smiley:

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But if you’d read more carefully, you would have realized that I wasn’t talking only about “pregnancies where the woman knows she’s pregnant”. I was talking about ALL fertilized ova from the moment of fertilization onward, of which total approximately one-half die before birth.

In other words, we’re talking around FIVE OR SIX MILLION “pre-born” deaths annually from natural causes in the US alone. Yes indeed, that’s WAY more than the corresponding number of abortions.

Again, a better analogy would be if we had an epidemic of natural causes KILLING ONE-HALF of ALL THE NATION’S TODDLERS every year. While self-proclaimed “Save the Toddlers” activists shrugged it off with “of course it’s sad, but people do die of natural causes at every stage of life” and continued to focus on accidental and criminal killings of toddlers instead.

Surely you’d agree that those people’s perceptions and/or priorities would be seriously fucked up? Their self-proclaimed concern for toddlers’ lives would be belied by their lack of interest in addressing the problem that is by far the biggest threat to toddlers’ lives.

But you don’t seem to bat an eye at the fact that while at least 500% more “pre-born” lives are lost to natural causes than to deliberate termination of pregnancy, the movement that considers itself the champion and defender of “pre-born” life essentially ignores them to focus overwhelmingly on the much smaller number of lives lost through abortion.

That’s blatantly hypocritical. It makes it clear that you don’t really think a fertilized ovum is a fully human being, especially if the mother isn’t aware of its existence, and don’t really care what happens to it, as long as it happens due to natural causes.