The only time I address a woman as miss is when I immediately use her last name afterward. So it might go something like “Good morning, Miss Holly. Yes ma’am, I pulled that file for you yesterday.” I never address anyone as miss followed by their first name though. I know some people here in Arkansas do that but I just can’t.
Referring to someone as miss just seems rude, but, as others have pointed out, I suppose that’s not always the case.
My mother raised me not to say ma’am because she was one of those people who thought it was rude. Strangely enough when we moved back to Texas (she’s a California gal) she thought it was quaint when someone called her ma’am. Maybe she mellowed out in her old age.
Once while working in Texas, I had someone at work rip me a new one for not addressing her as ma’am. I was a stupid 19 year old security guard at a corporate headquarters and pretty much everyone else in the building was really casual with me with most of the others just outright ignoring me. I apologized to her by saying “I’m sorry but I didn’t think you were old enough to be a ma’am.” I was trying to be charming but it didn’t work.
Odesio
I just realized it has been a while since I talked to unknown women.
If I had to, then I guess I would use ma’am. Miss, only if the woman was younger than me or looked kinda sorta young.
If someone dropped their purse, “Excuse me, you dropped your purse!” seems fine. No messiness!
Luckily in Japan, I don’t have to think of this issue (There is a whole another can of worms though…)
AuntBeast, where are you from and do you live there now? Where “ma’am” is commonly used to signify the respect that comes with age, I could understand taking offense. In some places, it’s effectively calling them old.
Im in the frozen northland, well Hartford CT area and we have a lot of blacks and hispanics in proportion to caucasians and I get Miss <firstnamed> a lot, and I use miss <firstname> a lot myself. I get ma’am-ed in stores and whatnot, but since I am almost to the magic bit 50 in age, it is more appropriate.
I put in my chops, and earned respect from youngsters, now GET OFF MY LAWN!
[actually I was raised to sir and ma’am people appropriately]
I visited the US for the first time last year. It absolutely chilled my blood the first time somebody called me Ma’am. And I have no idea why I feel that way. Personally I don’t see why you need to be addressed at all, can you not say what needs to be said without adding this Ma’am to the end of the sentance?
I don’t understand people who think by not saying Ma’am you will be using some other moniker like “Hey Fucker” as some other poster put it.
For instance my first Ma’am experience was in a theatre. I was heading to the bathroom and noticed the line was about a hundred miles long, I shrugged and turned on my heels. The usher then proceeded to try and get my attention by calling “Ma’am? Ma’am!” What was wrong with a simple “Excuse me” in this situation?
37, female, Southern. I call people ma’am/sir no matter their age – it is a form of respect, being polite. Nothing more. The rudest people, IMHO are the ones that throw a tantrum because they get called ma’am or sir, as if it’s an age thing. Get over it, someone is being polite to you, stop being rude back.
I’m 41. I think taking offense at being called ma’am would be a bit silly at my age.
Reminds me of the Absolutely Fabulous “France” episode when the flight attendant calls Patsy “Madam” and she spits back, “…demoiselle! …demoiselle!” heh
The most common use of it that I hear out in CA is “Yes, Ma’am” or “Yes, Sir” to communicate sarcastically that someone is making requests sound like orders and they aren’t in a position to be giving orders, or if they are then it’s just teasing them about it. The clients at the homeless shelter all knew my first name and used it, and (unless they were new) when they called me ma’am they were making fun of me for being bossy. A lot of the guys were 20 years older than me and it amused them to get bossed around by a ‘girl’.
Interestingly enough, when I was in Basic, there were guys in my flight who felt that “Sir” was actually disrespectful when used to an equal, because it was me “trying to build barriers” instead of me recognizing their superiority to me in some way (some were years older than me, givers of sage wisdom, or pretty much just plain in a position of authority because they were a squad leader). That said, in some flights in Basic Training, the instructors forbid trainees being called “Sir” because only the instructors were sir, while other flights everyone was required to call at least the squad leaders “Sir” (which some of the squad leaders accordingly let go straight to their tiny little heads)
But yeah, most people who outrank me are “Sir” or “Ma’am” because that’s how it works in the Air Force. When dealing with NCOs from other branches of service, I try to catch myself and substitute “Sargeant”, “Sar’ent” or “Petty Officer” depending on what seems appropriate, but half the time “Sir” or “Ma’am” slips out and thus far I’ve only managed to piss oner person off with it (oddly, a Marine Lance Corporal complaining about how I addressed an Army Staff Sergeant). Probably they give me a break because of how we’re trained in the Air Force, but we’re required to use the proper address for a superior, which means army NCOs are "Sargeant’ and not “Sir” (presumably, unlike Army and Marine NCOs, Air Force NCOs don’t work for a living:D)
EDIT: Oh, and the few times I’ve had a brand-shiny-new-just-fell-off-the-bus-from-Basic Airman call me “Sir”, I’ve found it mildly embarassing in an “Aw shucks you don’t gotta call me that!” way. For what it’s worth, I’m an Airman First Class, and so a couple paygrades away from being a Sir.
I “throw a tantrum” when it’s coming from someone I work with on a daily basis, who already knows my name. I don’t think that’s unrealistic- we’re all on the same playing field here (except, of course, for the Administration or our direct supervisors)- there’s no need to pull that out. It took me long enough to get used to “Ms FirstName” as a standard form of address from my coworkers- it’s understandable, since by consistently using it it teaches the kids to do the same, although it’s still sort of weird coming from someone 20+ years older than me- but if we’re in the privacy of our office having a normal conversation, there’s no need to address me as anything other than my first name.
I do take offense at your implication that we should get over it; what about our neighbors to the north, who have pointed out that it’s a loaded, offensive term? Should they get over it?
I understand it from retail/service-related people, and although it grates on me I don’t necessarily say anything. I’ve been known to joke with the nurses in my doctor’s office, though- I’ve been going there and have known them long enough that I think it’s okay to make fun of them a little for calling me ma’am when I’m younger than they are. They take it for the good-natured humor it is, but I wouldn’t pull it with a medical person I didn’t know, or with a law enforcement officer, because I know it’s part of their training.
As a child growing up in MA, anyone older than you was “Mrs/Ms. LastName” if you knew it, and if you didn’t you either didn’t speak to them until you were introduced, or you could default to ma’am if absolutely necessary (“Excuse me” was/is appropriate when trying to get someone’s attention). I remember going home for my grandmother’s funeral, and one of my mom’s friends telling me it was okay to call her by her first name now that I was over the age of 30, but I simply couldn’t do it- she’ll always be “Mrs LastName.”
I use “ma’am,” “miss,” or “sir” to get that person’s attention in a public place where his or her name is irrelevant. “Ma’am – ma’am – I think you dropped this,” “Excuse me, miss, there’s a line over here,” etc.
I do see an age difference between “ma’am” and “miss,” and was kind of freaked the first time I got ma’amed, when I was in my 30s – which is, I guess, where I see the dividing line.
I’m a Northerner. I don’t love it, but have gotten reconciled to it as I grow older. I like Miss, too. But I understand people will use it now, and I figure it’s better than some other things.
I won’t really use ma’am, though, or try not to.
I notice there is the South/North thing going on here again. I do not fly off the handle when someone ma’ams me, I just smile ruefully. If we can understand that it’s just a respectful thing then maybe the Southerners can attempt to understand it’s a little awkward for us, is all.
You do understand there are other people in the world with experiences that are different from yours, right?
That said, if I was called “Ma’am” from someone with a genuine southern accent, I probably wouldn’t mind it, and would take it as meant. I do know when people are "ma’am"ing me disrespectfully, though (using “ma’am” when you know damned well what they really want to call you is “shithead” or worse).
I don’t mind at all being called “ma’am” by a little kid. It means that someone has taken the time to teach them to be polite.
When an teenager or adult calls me “ma’am” I have a brief flash of “crap, I’m old.” But it doesn’t bother me that they called me ma’am; it does bother me that somehow I got old. That’s hardly their fault. Unless there’s a tone. And I assume the tone would be there no matter what form of address they used.
I’m a 33-year-old women raised right on the Mason-Dixon line. My family is more traditional than most (I had a coming out and everything).
I don’t particularly *like *being called ma’am, mostly because it makes me feel older. But I do think it’s appropriate, particularly when the term is used by someone I don’t know who’s younger than I am. I don’t think I’m due any special status because of my age; however, I do think that unless you’re introduced to someone on a first-name-only basis to begin with or unless they say to use their first name, you should use ma’am, sir or Mr/Mrs LastName until they tell you otherwise.
Although it seems like, “Hey, if they want me to call them Mr/mrs LastName or ma’am or sir, they should just say so,” it’s not that simple. Going from more formal to less formal is more comfortable socially than starting informal and going to formal, for whatever reason. If you call someone FirstName and they prefer a more formal title, you’re forcing them to sound snooty by making them say so. On the other hand, by starting with Mrs/Mr LastName or sir or ma’am, you’re somehow allowing them more of a choice without forcing them to sound snooty if they prefer the more formal version. And for what it’s worth, I know that doesn’t make any sense.
I don’t think I’ve ever been called “ma’am” by someone younger than me, but it wouldn’t bother me at all if a kid or teenager did so (I’m 31, FWIW).
There was an intern I used to worth with who was 32. She’d address our boss as ma’am and it made me want to strangle her, since our boss was only 36. Her use of “ma’am” made her seem more juvenile and subordinate than she was. I suggested that she quit saying it because it seemed like a good way to relegate herself to permanent drone status.
