Are you happily married?

In My Humble Opinion
121

Maybe an example of what I’m talking about would help explain it better:

A female co-worker of my husband’s M was married to T for about 20 years. She and her husband had no kids, worked at the same place, and both agree they were happy.

Then, in the space of a year, a lot of terrible things happened in M’s family. Her father became terminally ill. Her mother was sick enough that she couldn’t take care of herself, let alone her husband, so her brother had to become the caretaker for their parents. Then, her brother was diagnosed with a cancer that is usually rapidly fatal.

M was suddenly really upset and anxious all the time, and had to spend a lot of time going to care for her family members.

Within a couple of months, T asked for a divorce, claiming, “You don’t make me happy anymore. You’re sad all the time. You’re not home enough. This sucks. I’m not happy with you. I’m done.” T also revealed that he had gone out and started flirting with a new, much younger, woman, who did “make him happy.”

M got pissed, and divorced T’s ass as fast as she possibly could. To her, marriage was about a lot more than constant happiness. In her view, T should have been willing to support her through that bad patch.

Amusingly, immediately after the divorce was final, T’s new woman left him, and T’s brother died very suddenly. T began coming around to see M in the office at work almost daily. He wanted M to provide him emotional support through his hard time.

She told him, essentially, to fuck off. They weren’t married anymore, and she had learned he didn’t share her view that marriage was about more than personal happiness…unless it happened to be him that was in need of support, understanding, comfort, patience, and all the other good things that a lot of us feel are key to marriage.

I just happen to feel the comfort, patience, support, understanding, and partnership stuff are more important than the happiness stuff. Some people think the happiness issue is the only thing to value in marriage. I wonder why those people get married at all.

122

Sounds more like the distinction between short-term and long-term thinking. Both are based on wanting happiness, but focusing on happiness only in the short term can be a bad idea.

123

***Originally Posted by Q.N. Jones
Your experience is not incompatible with my statement.

Yes it is.

***You did not view marriage as primarily about personal happiness.

As I stated explicitly, that is exactly how we viewed it then (as well as now). I know how I felt. You don’t, and I hope you’re not as arrogant as you sounded saying otherwise.

***You had other considerations that kept you together through unhappy times. In this case, your friendship.

Oh please. Our friendship wasn’t something we considered before or during the hard times- We were far too miserable to think clearly. The perspective came only with years of hindsight.

***I think people who expect marriage to be primarily about happiness are bound to be divorced someday.
I have been a family lawyer, and have met many people who hit a miserable patch like that and say, “Oh well, I’m no longer happy, so it’s time for a divorce.” That’s what I’m referring to–people who value nothing but happiness (or hot sex, which is another one I saw a lot).

Understood, but while most if not all marriages may go through such bad times, they don’t all end up sitting in front of your desk. The fact that you may not have seen any marriages survive doesn’t mean there aren’t any.

***Marriage is not always happy.

You’re not the only person who knows this. No reasonably intelligent person expects otherwise.

***If happiness is your primary goal, you’ll leave each other when times aren’t so good.

Sez you. It is by no means a certainty. Don’t believe everything you think.

***I just happen to feel the comfort, patience, support, understanding, and partnership stuff are more important than the happiness stuff.

Comfort, patience, support, understanding, and partnership are the happiness stuff.

124

LOL. You (arrogantly) read a lot into my posts that isn’t there. It seems obvious to me that the problem is primarily with the definition of “happiness.” You choose to include a lot of things in it that, in my experience, most people don’t.

It cracks me up that you can get so worked up about someone who posts an opinion that differs from yours…in a forum called “In My Humble Opinion.”

125

I stand by my statement.

126

Bitching and moaning and whining spoilered so you don’t have to see it. I just need to talk to some strangers.[spoiler]It’s been 38 years and I’m not remotely happy, but that would be obvious to anybody who has noticed my preoccupation with roads not taken. My voice is a bit raspy these days (it’s related to my asthma) and her reply to anything I say, no matter how important, is, “Do something about your voice.” If I’m talking with our kids or watching TV in the same room it’s, “Go find a better job.” When I overheard her telling our daughter with epilepsy that she sleeps too much and it’s causing her seizures I said that her neurologist told me she should get eight hours or more per night to reduce seizures. She said, “I wasn’t talking to you, Mr Buttinski,” and continued with her wrong claim. And if we have a fight she says, “You should just leave,” apparently having not noticed that I moved into my own “apartment” downstairs ten years ago and avoid her as much as I can. And that my name is on the mortgage, which I have always paid by myself, including when I was unemployed.

She’s sickly so she gets sympathy points, but I’ve given up on ever being happy. [/spoiler]

127

Dropzone, I’m sorry. Is there an overwhelming reason that you stay? You deserve to be happy in life…

128

Marriage is about my long term happiness. If I didn’t think over the course of our lifetimes we’d have more good days than bad, I wouldn’t stick it out.

That doesn’t mean that we haven’t had bad days - or our share of tragedy and pain. And times when my life would be easier without him - or his would be easier without me - but we have faith that when that happens, its a temporary situation - or alternatively (because I watched my brother in law die and his girfriend stick it out - even when their were no happy days left) because the happy days of the past carry weight.

As to the question - if you removed X - we have two kids, we have a dog and a cat, a house, our health, some money - there are things you could remove that would make me unhappy - but I wouldn’t be unhappy with the marriage because my kids leave for college, or his or my health starts to fail, or the pets die and we don’t replace them (EVEN IF I would like to and he’s the one that says its too much bother).

129

Can’t afford to leave without dumping the house on her, and she cannot afford to keep it. And I made a commitment. Plus, I’m 60 and fat and asthmatic and a bit crazy and I keep expecting to be dead. A few years back I semi-consciously tried to imminentize it through an addiction to lots of strong drink, but that didn’t work because I got sober before I could kill myself. And there were a couple women at AA who kept me on track; I think I was flexing my sobriety muscles to impress them, not that anything “happened.”

I spent this week with my heart aching (if you start out unhealthy enough it really happens; feels like shit) so I had to unload here. At the tail end of a dying thread seemed like a private enough place to do it.

130

I was at a dinner with Fortune 500 executives last night in Colorado. The subject matter suddenly turned dark somehow when the youngest person there mentioned marriage. They asked me what I thought about it and I hesitated before I said that it was probably the most stupid thing a man can ever do from a cost/benefit standpoint unless you want to have kids. Even then, it is a horrible idea but still the most responsible way to get that done. They all agreed and said they would not have chosen their current wife if they could do it all over again (most of them have other lovers as well).

I am sorry to break the bad news that there is no Santa Clause and marriage is generally bad news. Almost all marriages are fake and based on false pretenses. That doesn’t mean that they won’t work in the long-term in some sense but the original contract is hardly ever is as stated in the beginning. There is nothing wrong with that if both parties agree to it but the really unfair thing is misrepresent the whole institution to younger people that might want to participate in it. I do not think that it should be encouraged as a idealized model for everyone because it almost never works as advertised. Women tend to want a grand wedding and men think they will get constant sex. That works great until 10 days after the wedding and a lifetime of reality sets in.

Instead, why don’t we teach individual freedom, financial responsibility and self- sufficiency for everyone? You need that whether you are married or not.

131

So a bunch of men who work 70-80 hours a week and make time for mistresses instead of their spouses find themselves unhappy in love? Color me shocked!

Look, I get what you are saying. Traditional marriage isn’t for everyone. But for most people bonding with someone and creating a life with them is a good overall choice. Choosing someone to be your family and working together for the betterment of both of you usually leaves both people better off, not to mention the benefit for any children involved.

132

Where’s my orange sherbet?