Are you "patriotic?" Do you consider yourself a "patriot?"

[snowthx]

Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. - Mark Twain

That pretty much sums it up for me. I want our country to be successful and people who live here to also be successful - I don’t think you can have a successful country without most of the people in it also being successful. Supporting or not supporting the government does not make someone a Patriot or not; same with flag-waving/wearing, buying American, or being partisan.

I like living here, but it is the only place I know well. That does not mean this is the best country on Earth - just the best one that I know. As far as foreign policy, the US has a long history of abomination and is embarrassing - just because we have done many wrongs does not make me love this place any less - but I want to help prevent making the same mistakes over again.

I think the term “Patriot” should be reserved for people who do things to help this country succeed and stay safe, not for people who just say things, and not the dufus with the big American flag flying from the back of his pickup truck (unless he has done something worthy).

[Jackmannii]

@Der_Trihs

I was when I was younger, but the last few decades have burned it out of me; now I feel only contempt, fear and hatred for my country.

“If You Don’t Like Your Uncle Sammy”…

[silenus]

Nope. Not in the least. In fact, I’m actively working to overthrow the government and replace it with a functional democracy, with Liberty and Justice for All.

[TokyoBayer]

@DrCube

Despite serious flaws, it’s still the most free country on Earth.

Seriously? How much freer it is than someplace such as Canada?

@snowthx

I like living here, but it is the only place I know well. That does not mean this is the best country on Earth - just the best one that I know.

This is the type of patriotism which I like.

I’ve lived outside the US for more than 30 years. I know other places very well, and America really isn’t that special. Both Japan and Taiwan are nice, but they have flaws as well.

I don’t like blind patriotism. I love reading about WWII, and we can all see how well that went.

[Darren_Garrison]

@John_Bredin

a lot of those people prominently display “Don’t Tread On Me” shirts/flags/bumper-stickers

I’d prefer a version of this.

[Walken_After_Midnight]

Who was the patriot? Adolf Hitler or Sophie Scholl?

[Icarus]

As these posts indicate, there is surprisingly a lot to unpack when talking about being patriotic or a patriot. I find that I want my country to be the best it can be, and am deeply troubled when I feel it is not moving in the proper direction. In that I feel I am patriotic. I also differentiate patriotism, which I see as being “for my country”, from nationalism, which I see as adding an antagonistic “and against your country”.

I am also, by nature, a non-demonstrative type, so I tend to bristle at overt public demonstrations of patriotism - as if that in and of itself is the goal (classic virtue signalling). But, I recognize that most often that is simply differences in personal style. I am on guard for when demonstrative patriotism tips into judgement of others and confrontation, which happens all too often (some people expect everyone to be like them).

I admire and respect people who choose to serve the public (if they truly choose to serve the public - and a surprising number don’t consider everyone as part of the public), and sacrifice in that service.

And finally, my patriotism demands speaking up when I see that what I consider the greatest values of my country being weakened or trampled.

[aceplace57]

Absolutely.

My dad is ex military flew the flag outside his home for years.

My mom recently bought a retirement home that’s very close to an AFB. I get emotional every afternoon at 5 when they play the Retreat ceremony. That signals the end of the official duty day. Hearing that again brings me back to childhood when we lived in base housing.

[Ulfreida]

I’m a patriot pretty much like I’m a member of a family. Just because I find some other members oppressive, some boring, and one who seems just crazy, doesn’t mean I won’t defend it against all comers.

[Chessic_Sense]

I’m a patriot like I’m a parent. I love my country fully and entirely. I am proud of it. I work every day to make it better, to serve its interests, to defend it from harm, and to hope for a bright future. I think about my country’s health as much as I think about my children’s health. Insulting my country is like insulting my child. None of this is dependent in any way on whether my child or my country is well behaved, well liked, or successful. People who don’t like their country? Well, that’s like a parent who doesn’t love their kid. There’s nothing good you can think of that person.

[Wesley_Clark]

@HurricaneDitka

Yes, and yes. It means that I love my country and want it to be successful (and work towards achieving success).

As for “defend it as a positive attribute”, I suppose there’s an element of “in the eye of the beholder” for labeling any attribute “positive” or “negative” (e.g. I think being kind is a positive attribute, but someone else might consider a kind person to be a push-over and view the attribute negatively). IMHO, patriotism is pretty clearly a positive attribute. In any organization I’m a part of, whether it’s a family, a country, a business, a sports team, etc., I want my fellow members to be devoted to it and want it to succeed (and work towards achieving success). I don’t want my teammates to be indifferent to the success or failure of our team, and I don’t want fellow citizens that are indifferent to the success or failure of our country.

The criticism a lot of people have about patriotism is that it can be blind to your nations flaws. America has overpriced, brutal health care. Legalized bribery. A shrinking middle class. Attacks on democracy from at home and abroad. A strong culture of ignorance and bigotry.

But on top of that, patriotism also tends to be synonymous with nationalism, which tends to lead to persecution of minorities and out groups, militarism, anti-democracy movements, etc.

I don’t know. The US is vastly superior to a large number of countries, but not as good as some others. And we’ve done good and bad things. I don’t know where that attitude falls on being pro or anti patriotism.

[kaylasdad99]

I like to link to this when the topic of patriotism arises.

[Shodan]

@Wesley_Clark

The criticism a lot of people have about patriotism is that it can be blind to your nations flaws.

The criticism that patriots have of people who reject patriotism is that they are blind to America’s virtues. And they have a sort of allergic guilt reaction when they hear America praised.

But on top of that, patriotism also tends to be synonymous with nationalism, which tends to lead to persecution of minorities and out groups, militarism, anti-democracy movements, etc.

The anti-patriots also seem to do a great deal of projection.

Regards,
Shodan

[Inigo_Montoya]

@Shodan

The criticism that patriots have of people who reject patriotism is that they are blind to America’s virtues. And they have a sort of allergic guilt reaction when they hear America praised.
The anti-patriots also seem to do a great deal of projection.

Regards,
Shodan

So is it safe to assume you are the one projecting, or do you have a cite to back any of that up? As one who rejects patriotism I am definitely not blind to my country’s virtues–I just recognize they are balanced with turning a blind eye to the worst sorts of injustice. Also, that in that regard we’re no different from any other country you care to name, and so nothing to be particularly proud of or repulsed by. USA is not special except inasmuch as we’re unique like every other country.

And I don’t know where you got that guilt reaction cheese, but that needs to go back to from where you pulled it out of. I like it when USA get public recognition for doing something good because that means, in that instance, I don’t have to be considered one of the shitbags that likes to exploit and abuse our freedoms to advance their own personal ambitions.

[Red_Wiggler]

Not particularly. Maybe I would be if we were a better democracy but too many of us are opposed to even trying.

[Czarcasm]

@Shodan

The criticism that patriots have of people who reject patriotism is that they are blind to America’s virtues. And they have a sort of allergic guilt reaction when they hear America praised.
The anti-patriots also seem to do a great deal of projection.

Regards,
Shodan

Would you consider Samuel Johnson to be a patriot?

[Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge]

I wouldn’t say I am patriotic or unpatriotic. Somewhere in the middle. I am embarrassed by our country now though.

[Shodan]

@Inigo_Montoya

So is it safe to assume you are the one projecting, or do you have a cite to back any of that up?

No, that isn’t a safe assumption.

As one who rejects patriotism I am definitely not blind to my country’s virtues–I just recognize they are balanced with turning a blind eye to the worst sorts of injustice.

This is what I was talking about - mentioning American virtues triggers the assertion that anyone is turning a blind eye to the worst sorts of injustice.

And I don’t know where you got that guilt reaction cheese, but that needs to go back to from where you pulled it out of. I like it when USA get public recognition for doing something good because that means, in that instance, I don’t have to be considered one of the shitbags that likes to exploit and abuse our freedoms to advance their own personal ambitions.

And this. The mere mention that the USA might be publicly recognized for doing something good triggers the response even as a hypothetical.

Anti-patriotism cannot bear to see America praised, and are compelled to try to drown that out with condemnation. I don’t need a cite - it’s right here in the thread. Well-poisoning, thread-shitting, the reflexive equation of patriotism with nationalism and the oppression of minorities - it’s all here.

Regards,
Shodan

[Czarcasm]

@Shodan

No, that isn’t a safe assumption.
This is what I was talking about - mentioning American virtues triggers the assertion that anyone is turning a blind eye to the worst sorts of injustice.And this. The mere mention that the USA might be publicly recognized for doing something good triggers the response even as a hypothetical.

Anti-patriotism cannot bear to see America praised, and are compelled to try to drown that out with condemnation. I don’t need a cite - it’s right here in the thread. Well-poisoning, thread-shitting, the reflexive equation of patriotism with nationalism and the oppression of minorities - it’s all here.

If that’s all you see, then that’s all you see.

[Ann_Hedonia]

I wrote this a while back in response to one of those “You Liberals hate America because you don’t spend enough time humping the flag like I do” threads that are constantly popping up in GD. Looks like it’s time to post it again.

---

“We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable; that all men are created equal and independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable, among which are the preservation of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

Those were some radical sentiments for their time. The founders of our country came out of a time where it was believed that your place in society and the world was the divine manifestation of God’s will and plan and it was not your place to try and change it. It was believed that your husband, your king, the lord of your manor was inherently better than you and that this hierarchy needed to be accepted. The idea of pursuit of happiness was also radical - the prevailing idea was that your life was the property of your king and your God. Personal happiness had no place in the equation.

But our forefathers changed that. Our country was built on an idea, not a race, religion or ethnicity.

The Declaration of Independence is more aspiration than declaration. It took us ,as a country, time to implement this idea. And it’s a continuing process.

We fought a war over slavery, and our ideals triumphed over race, culture and heritage.

It was still a slow process, but we continued

We changed the country’s attitude towards war. We fought against the mass slaughter of unwilling soldiers in Vietnam. We still have war, but this country no longer has tolerance for the kind of casualties we saw in Vietnam. And all military service is now elective.

We also took part in eliminating the legalized racism that ran directly counter to the Declaration of Independence and hampered so many of our citizens in their pursuit of happiness.

We took further steps towards achieving these ideals by making marriage legally available to all couples.

We still aren’t there yet. But we’re getting there. And I’m proud to be part of it.

Because asking people how much they love their country is like asking men how much they love their wives. It’s, at best, a meaningless question because what counts is not how much you profess to love, but how you express that love.

And frankly, a lot of “patriots” are like the guys that love their wives so much that they would rather kill them then see them with another man. They embrace anti-governmental hierarchical ideals that run directly counter to the vision set forth in the Declaration of Independence. These “patriots” are exactly like the guys that project a fantasy image onto an exceptional but not perfect (because she’s real) woman and then kill her because she doesn’t live up to their fantasy.

Yes, I love my country. I love my country the way a parent loves their child. A good loving parent doesn’t insist that their child can do no wrong. A good loving parent doesn’t believe her child if he tells her that everyone in the school system and police department is out to get them. A good and loving parent doesn’t try to make her child’s misbehavior a societal norm

Like a good parent, I have a vision of what I want my country to be in 10 years, 20 years, 50 years. That vision is laid out in our founding documents. And I want to help guide my country towards achieving that vision in whatever small way I can.

Because I love my country