I read somewhere that soldiers don’t say “zero dark thirty” for an unspecified-time night op, but “oh dark thirty.” True? Also, is that just a special-ops term or do other services use it, including regular Army.
The memorable, powerful, and effective hendiadys “shock and awe” is now pretty much part of the American lexicon. Was it a term in use by tacticians or other brass first, or was it Schwarzkopf’s or Rumsfeld’s, or a talented writer for either of the two?
From as early as I can remember, in the Navy, we were told that “oh” was a letter, and “Zero” was a number. We always said things like "I have to be at work at Zero Four"for four in the morning. Zero dark thirty was reserved for some undetermined time that was too early to get up. I do not remember “shock and awe” from before we all heard it.
Shock and awe was doctrine from the mid 90s. I’m posting this from a phone so no link but details are in Wiki.
I remember hearing both zero dark 30 and oh dark hundred during the late 60’s in the USAF. Oh dark hundred was more common.
Yeah, oh dark thirty was a phrase a good friend of mine came into college saying as a 17 year old in 1991. I’m guessing it was a favorite of his dad, who was in the Army in the 1970s.
In the Navy (my experience being 1982-2003) it was always “oh dark thirty.” A real time, however, would use “zero” - eg, “zero three hundred.”
In the Navy I heard “Oh dark thirty” and “zero dark thirty” (the first was more common) to describe some ungodly early hour.
Same here, only in the 60s-70s. As an alternate, we used to say “oh bright hundred”, as in get here early.
Oh dark thirty. When they serve midrats to the snipes. Probably sliders and bug juice.
When I worked for the DoD, I had a lot of military co-workers, (mostly army and air force, and I never heard “zero dark anything”. If they were referring to a time, it was always “oh three hundred”
I thought “shock and awe” was an invention by the media with us military ok in the first gulf war. Maybe it originated in the military and was passed to the media. It was almost certainly approved for usage by the military for people who addressed the media. Not sure what branch of the armed services os those things, but it’s similar to a PR office. I think of the scene in Full Metal Jacket, when “search and destroy” was changed to “sweep and clear”
No, it’s from the military.
In the song/recitation Battle of Trenton by Mike Agranoff, written in 1985, he uses Zero Dark Thirty.
Of dark thirty. The oh Stands for Oh my god it’s early
I thought “o” stands for “oh my god, it’s Robert Loggia”
In the Navy, I only ever heard “Oh Dark Thirty” for it.
U.S. Army and Reserves ('86-'94), and I’ve heard and used both terms (Oh-dark-thrity/zero-dark-thirty) to refer to any generic (or non-specific), ungodly early hour.
“Shock & Awe” as a military terminology/doctrin probably goes back further than Sun-Tzu; as specific terms in modern use, TSBG answered that one. The difference is that prior to its modern usage, it was more likely concerned with tactical applications, whereas its current usage is in the strategic context.
I think the Wikipedia entry for the movie used to say that the correct term was “oh dark thirty,” which I liked - it sounds like it means something like half past dark. But if it said that, it’s been edited out. The rest of the Internet seems to agree that it’s oh dark thirty.
I always assumed it was a euphemism, because the first time I heard anyone use a vaguely military-sounding term for an unspecified early hour, it was “oh-fuck-hundred.” The first person I heard use “oh-dark-thirty” was somebody’s mom.
I’m a little more familiar with the civilian term “the buttcrack of dawn”.
My understanding is that the distinction between “Oh” and “Zero” are branch-related. Marines (and some Navy) say "zero dark thirty’. Army, AF, etc say “oh dark thirty”.