OK, guys, the next post better be an offer of a topic, or I’m out of here. Smug back-and-forth posts educate no one. Pick your weapon, you two.
“Eppur, si muove!” - Galileo Galilei
Okay, Guad. Here’s a suggested topic:
What is the nature of God (in other words, what characteristics does He have)?
Adam, you go first. Ask me one question about the nature of God, one that you are interested in knowing the LDS perspective of. And remember, I get some time to do a little research before replying.
Gaudere: Yea, I was kidding, didn’t you see my little wink? 
And I never said I was a great debater, just that I’m good at arguing. I don’t think the two mean the same thing. And come to think of it, I’d rather not go at it with the likes of Dex, Keeves, and CMKeller. They’d all eat lil’ old me for lunch! (I mean, I like a challenge and all, but there’s only so far you can go on the 'Net.)
Bill: I’m sorry. I just went through and browsed many web sites dealing with the contradictions of Mormonism. It’s truly sad, because your very own BOM contradicts itself, as does every other thing you read. My dear Lord, it’s all one big ball of lies, and confusion. No wonder you don’t know what’s up or down. 
If you read those books that I reccomended, and found them to be funny, then I’m sorry, but I can’t help you here. You need God to reveal Himself to you personally, in a real way. I’m sorry Bill, but I’m out. If someone else wants to step up and take a crack at debunking Mormonism, then so be it. But I’m not willing to. Not here, not now.
Adam
“Life is hard…but God is good”
I kid too, but I think I’ve been pretty respectful.
If you don’t want to debate, we will abide by your decision. That’s too bad, though.
I can find sites that show the contradictions within the OT/NT testament. Heck, I can find websites that say giant glowing alien racoons exist. The net is not the whole world; I think you should listen to Snark and Chaim, Keeves, etc. with at least as open a mind as I have (wicked, unrepentant atheist though I am). I don’t think the Mormons are necessarily any more misguided than anybody else. Your condescending attitude reflects badly on you.
“Eppur, si muove!” - Galileo Galilei
ARG220, Member, posted on 09-11-1999 at 01:25 AM the stuff between the quote lines; my responses are between those quotations.
Good. Now please browse some sites dealing with the contradictions of the Bible and “mainstream” Christianity and then tell us what your conclusion is. After all, “fair’s fair” and what you are presenting is a one-sided argument.
And this you know exactly how? You have yet to read the book yourself to determine if what you are told by those sites you’ve perused are telling you the truth about it. I’m guessing here, but I’m really starting to think you don’t trust yourself to make your own determinations. Another thing is that the Bible itself contradicts itself. Please be so kind as to apply the same standard of acceptance to it or cease and desist.
Would this include those sites you mentioned above?
That is quite obviously an opinion, yet you pronounce it as a fact. And again, I ask of you: Exactly how have you come to that conclusion when you have yet to read the thing for yourself?
Um, Adam? I’d love to talk with you but it’s kind of hard when you’re talking to yourself.
Some folks I know have read the Bible and told me they find it to be quite funny. Yet, we have grand discussions about religion, theology, culture, and other things. These discussions are quite amicable–over dinner, over lunch, sipping lemonade, etc. But since those folks are Muslims, I’m sure you’d not listen to a word they’d have to say.
Wait a second here! Isn’t that what Snarkberry’s been telling you?
You left out “not capable of doing it.” I don’t know; maybe the LDS Church is deserving of debunking. You might recall that I explicitly stated that I do not discount that opinion although I don’t share it. But of one thing I am certain here: You, ARG220, are definitely incapable of so doing.
Adam:
Scenario: It is 33 A.D. Christ has been resurrected and has departed into the heavens. There are angry Jews who hate Christ for his words (the truth hurts). You are, say, a Roman soldier who is wondering what all the hubbub is about. Someone tells you that the King of the Jews has been killed. Apalled, you decide to ask some of the Pharisees that killed Christ, just what His teachings were. These angry Jews tell you all sorts of lies, distortions, made-up stories, and deceptions about Christ. You begin to wonder if maybe these people had a good reason to kill Christ. Then you notice something: there are some Jews who aren’t preaching against Christ, but who are proclaiming Him as the true Messiah. They tell you wonderful stories about His miracles, His love for all mankind, and His selfless sacrifice so that all mankind could be saved.
My question: which of the following two groups would be telling you the truth about Christ?
A) The angry Pharisees who would do anything to discredit Him; OR
B) The humble followers of Christ who only wish to share the awesome experiences they had with Him, and their testimonies of His divinity?
If you answer “A”, there’s no hope for you.
Now, apply that to what you’ve just seen on all those anti-Mormon web sites. Who would you expect to give you reliable, accurate information about the LDS church?
A) Angry malcontents who have nothing better to do than tell lies about the LDS church, and who would say just about anything to get you to believe that it is a false religion; OR
B) Humble followers of Christ who are LDS and who wish to share with you the joys of the gospel they have found?
Hint: if you choose “A”, you’re gullible as heck, and a perfect target for evil men to tell lies to. Go to the pro-LDS sites, and you will find quite a different story than the anti’s will tell you about.
Darnit! Kat already pointed out what I was gonna say about ARG’s claim of two books contradicting each other, etc.
Between this and his previous statements against the Mormons of how they ignore evidence, etc., it really is apparent that he has two different standards: One for himself, one for everybody else.
Oh, man, I finally figured it out: Adam is from Bizzarro Earth, the strange square planet where everything is the opposite of what it is here.
I mean, first, he says
Hilarious. Adam, I can find you consecutive books in both the OT and the NT which say contradictory things about the same event. You don’t even want to go there.
Then, after establishing contradiction as a criterion for falsehood, he has the stupidity to quote someone who, in a single paragraph, manages to say:
Taken as a whole, the content of this paragraph is zero, as it is completely self-contradictory.
Then, he goes on to ignore every admonition from Paul about being boastful, and describes how he could destroy Monty, Bill and the entire LDS church with a determined effort. I’m sure smarter people than Adam have tried, and yet it goes on.
Man oh man oh man . . . I love waking up to this stuff. Starting the day with a laugh is the best way to go.
PLD: I wager you’re correct about ARG’s planet of origin. Heck, he even equates “good at getting into arguments” with “good at arguing.”
This pronouncement from ARG220 -
- fits in nicely with one of my pet theories.
I’ve maintained for a couple of years now that folks such as ARG220 arrive on the SDMB scene because they’re ordered to by their faith leader. Once their “mission” is over (in this case, I’m using “over” as in “met the allotted time to do what you’re told to do”), they’re off and running to another board populated by us raving heathen types who usually inhabit boards such as the SDMB.
Who wants to wager we see a “new and improved” version of ARG220 within the next two weeks?
May I suggest a steel cage match between Arg and Snark(btw,thats what I call my son,as an endearment!).2 rounds,no time-outs. Anyone here willing to pay to see this?
Maybe with each apology they switch off! Then any change in tone/style would be attributed to “trying to change my attitude”.
Sheesh. ARGuing with Adam is like trying to empty the ocean with a sieve.
“Eppur, si muove!” - Galileo Galilei
I was having a long talk with my wife this morning, over breakfast, telling her about Adam and some of the other discussions on the board. This is a woman who, from age 12 until after we were married, was as “on fire for the Lord” as you can get. She was at the church in some capacity seven days a week, with dance practice, drama practice, band practice, youth services, bible studies–you name it. She spoke in tongues (still can), the whole nine yards.
Anyway, she told me that, when her faith started to falter was when one of the pastors in her church became a sort of militaist/survivalist, started preaching that God was coming back within the month, started collecting weapons, and moved into the woods and took a bunch of members with him. I don’t know what the ultimate outcome was; I wasn’t around. But she told me that many in the church started telling her that what he was saying was not of God, that God would never order such things, etc.
So she started thinking, “Why wouldn’t God tell him these things? He told people things like this all the time in the Bible.” So she decided that, either he could as easily be telling this pastor those things now as he told the Biblical characters what he did; or the voice of God was no more real today than it was then. She ultimately decided on the latter.
She said that, having been on both sides now, and learned so much about how the world is for real, she understands Adam’s attitude. She said it’s great to really beleive that there is some ultimate authority in the universe, and that he actually cares about you as an individual, cares what you think. She completely sympathisizes with the “ignorance is bliss” attitude. But she doesn’t understand this need to inflict that ignorance on others, and she’s more glad that she’s less ignorant now.
She also said that she thinks speaking in tongues sounds Spanish, and that it is nothing more that an autohypnotic method of tapping straight into the language center of your brain and letting the phonemes fly with no semantic content at all.
Bill: Your little quiz actually made sense. You do have a point that those site may be lying about the BOM, and D&C…etc. So, the only way to find out of they are lying is to buy a BOM, and get a copy of the D&C, and see for myself. I do tend to have faith in my fellow brethren who are probably NOT lying on those web sites, but I see your point.
Phil: I admit that I should have actually READ Smiling Jaws’ quote before I posted it. Upon reading it, I think he/she just made the error of not distiguishing between God the Father and God the Son. Sure, God the Father was never man, He has always been a spirit. BUT, Jesus WAS a man. So, I think that’s what he was trying to say.
I think I’d like to talk to your wife Phil. I realize you probably think this is a horrible idea, but at least she didn’t say things like “The Bible is stupid, and ‘F’ Adam and Eve,” like someone I know. Maybe, if it was ok with you, and she actually wanted to, then she could E-mail me? It’s just an idea.
Monty: Your theory on me is off. Let me explain. I’ve been hanging around the SD for two years, but only started posting back in May. Yes, my first post was about religion, but nobody I know, knows that I’m even posting here (except for a really good female friend of mine). I was on a mission to save the world. But as I said before, I got in the way of Jesus, and Furt pointed that out to me. I’m still quite comfortable posting religious topics, but you see that I’ve changed my stance. Oh, and I don’t post on any other boards, and I probably never will. I love the SD too much. 
To all: Look guys, I was ready to go at with Bill, and Monty, and whoever else wanted to argue with me. Believe me, the prospect of arguing without anyone saying it’s bad is very tempting. But my gut feeling is to leave this one alone. I gotta go with my gut, or actually, what the Holy Spirit is telling me. You may say I’m coping out, or that I realize that I’m incapable of debunking Mormonism. Well, go ahead, say whatever. But I must do, what I feel is right, and that’s say nothing at all.
Oh yea, and my boastful post about how I could destroy Monty and Bill was in jest. I should have made that more clear. Plus, I was caught up in the moment, and said some stupid stuff. So, I hope none of you think I’m that arrogant.
One last thing. Phil, your comment on Bizzaro Adam was actually pretty funny. And I’m glad you enjoy waking up to my foolishness. Glad I can brighten your day.
Adam
“Life is hard…but God is good”
Yo, Snark! That bit just above this sentence is Adam implying agreement with one part of LDS doctrine! I already dialled 9-1; just let me know if I need to hit the other digit.
Well, Adam; I really don’t think you’ve changed your stance all that much. You recently posted a lie. That is, you posted that I said something I didn’t say. Or are you apologizing for that lie now? If so; I’ll give it the usual 24-hour litmus test.
Honestly Monty, I haven’t a clue what you’re talking about. What lie, when, how? Please point out EXACTLY what you said, and then EXACTLY what I said, and we’ll go from there.
“Life is hard…but God is good”
Monty: Could it be? Keep your hand on that phone!
Adam: Here’s the link to order a free BOM: Free Book of Mormon
I’m glad you thought I made sense…I’ve never received a greater compliment!
Thanks for the link, Snark. I ordered one. But they better be serious about not calling on you if you click the “no” button! Some of the people who witness door-to-door make Adam look like a bastion of logic and reasonableness.
“Eppur, si muove!” - Galileo Galilei
You’re welcome, Guad. I’m sure they will respect your desire not to be contacted.