I am not involved in the argument, it is a pissing contest among some relatives on my dad’s side of the family.
Briefly, there were two brothers we will call Jack and Joe. Jack went into the army and fought in WWII while Joe, denied enlistment because he was employed in a vital industry, stayed home and mined coal. Jack brought home a number of souvenirs from the war, including two handguns and a drilling. Today, the handguns might sell for a few hundred apiece to a thousand or so. Can’t place a value on the drilling because I only saw it a couple times as a kid and can’t remember maker or markings. It is potentially worth much more than the pistols. For reasons that are unclear, all the guns were stored at Joe’s house. Whenever they were brought out to shoot or to show off they were always described as “Jack’s guns.”
During the war, Joe married and had two kids, Mick and Shari. Jack would not marry and have kids until nearly 1960.
In the fullness of time Jack and Joe both died. This was in the late 1980s or so. Mick took possession of all the guns at his father’s house and had amassed a considerable and valuable collection of his own over the years.
Mick, who had never married, died suddenly of a heart attack not too long ago. As his closest surviving kin, Shari inherited all his property including the guns. As she has no interest in such things, she sold the whole collection to a pawn broker for “whaddya gimme for them on the spot?”
Now to the pissing contest: Jack’s kids and grandkids (probably some of the great grandkids too) are furious with Shari for selling Jack’s guns. They claim they were family heirlooms that Mick just happened to be holding at the time of his death. It is their contention that Shari should have given them Jack’s guns, or at the very, very least offered them a chance to buy them before selling off Mick’s collection.
Shari and her husband contend that the guns were Mick’s because clan Jack had decades to ask for their return and they never did. As Mick’s heir, the guns were now Shari’s to do whatever the fuck she wanted with them…including sell them at substantially below their market value.
The guns are gone and so is the money. Shari and her husband ran through it pursuing their hobby, which is hanging out in bars. So at this point, there is nothing but butt hurt.
I liked Jack and Joe very much. I liked Mick quite well too. I never could stand Shari. Jacks descendants are tolerable to me only in tiny doses. However, despite my dislike of Shari (and her husband), I can see her side of this. I can see clan Jack’s side too.
In your opinion, how should the matter have been handled?
How it SHOULD have been handled, is for Jack’s kids to express some interest in the stuff when their dad died and Mick “took possession” of them. They should have been especially on alert to realize that, w/ Mick in possession, they could foreseeably end up in the hands of barfly Shari.
I can understand how Jack’s descendants are pissed, but they did nothing for decades. As such, they bear a huge portion of the responsibility for the stuff being gone, and need to get over it.
Totally agree with Dinsdale. In my family my now deceased Mom felt an old rocking chair was hers, but it was in possession of a sister-in-law. When Aunt Jackie died Mom made no effort to claim the chair. Fifteen years later she was still complaining about “her” rocker, even though she had never asked for it.
This comes under the heading of “One party may have more claim than the other…”, but that is superseded by the legal situation titled “Well, Whatcha Gunna Do 'Bout It Now?”
We’ve had comparable but less volatile events like this in our family. I have to be the one who shrugs and says "Shake it off and move on.’
As I understand clan Jack’s argument, they felt that, as long as Mick had the guns, they were “in the family.” Shari’s great sin is that she sold the guns out of the family. Presumably, if Shari had just held onto them, clan Jack would have been okay with that. Clan Jack is a contentious lot and there are a lot of them. I can see Jack’s kids being ok with Mick or Shari holding them rather than have their kids (and grandkids) fighting over three guns.
My wife’s family is going through something similar regarding the sale/ownership of a family island. Lawyers are involved now and there’s a family rift forming.
Although, I sympathize with the parties, I have the same recurring thought. “Why the fuck didn’t they say anything until now… because now is too late!”
Shari should definitely asked them about whether they wanted them but they also should have asked for them at some point.
In the end, it’s only stuff, besides, if they wanted these heirlooms, they could have gone to the pawn shop and bought them back.
Classic example of, “Ya make your choices, ya bear the consequences.” If something really matters to you, you oughtn’t simply leave it up to how you “hope” the other party acts.
Look at it this way - clan Jack will get more mileage from bitching about this down through the generations, than they ever would have gotten from 3 measly guns that none of them (apparently) even cared enough to look at for decades! (Yeah, I have THAT sort of issues in my extended family! :rolleyes:)
This kind of thing is depressingly common in my extended family. When one of my great-grandmothers died, my grandmother and her stepsisters fought viciously over a vase. Eventually, my grandmother ended up with it. She’s been dead since the mid-1980s. I don’t know what became of the vase. Maybe one of my aunts has it or maybe it was thrown out when my grandmother’s apartment was emptied.
Easily doable for the pistols, if the shop hasn’t already sold them, as they were likely worth only a few hundred each. The drilling, based on some casual googling of values, was worth anywhere from a couple grand on up to “you gotta be kidding me!” One expects the pawn broker would sell them properly valued rather than at his cost.
Even so, if any of Jack’s descendants had done this, the whole problem would be gone. They’d now, unequivocally, be hir guns.
When my parents died - w/o a will, I thought my 3 sibs and I handled things great. We drew numbers 1-4, and took turns (reversing back and forth) to pick any 1 “thing.” That way, each of us was guaranteed to get at least a couple of the things that meant the most to us. Worked really well.
My wife’s family - not so good. When MIL died, one very controlling sister was the executor. She made every little object a huge debate, and gave us the opinion of rewriting history to give herself various thing. A couple of years later we know it is all just “stuff.” And we have enough of it to remember MIL. But that side of the family has excellent memories for perceived slights. Just recently we were discussing having people over for x-mas, and my wife questioned whether we should take some knick-knack out of a cabinet, because her sister might think it should have been hers… I said fuck it. If sister bitches, give it to her and kick her ass out of our house. (Actually, if it were brought up, it would be in a passive-aggressive musing, "THAT’s where they ended up! How did YOU get those?) :smack:
This story hits sooooo close to home. Same shit happened in our family. Dad died, older brother swooped in and basically just ‘stole’ everything. Some time later, He winds up dead on the side of the road, and his floozy widow’s new boyfriend ends up with all of it. I was DAMN lucky to come away with Dad’s M1 Carbine (more of less had to ‘buy it back’). All the others are gone, never to be seen again. :mad:
Bottom line, put everything in writing, and never trust NOBODY. In my experience, Money trumps Blood, every time. Sad, but true.
One small clarification that may, or may not, change opinions. Joe died before Jack. Jack was apparently OK with Mick continuing to store the guns for him as Joe had. Mick continued to refer to them as “Jack’s guns.” For whatever reason, Jack never did keep any guns in his home and did not shoot recreationally or hunt. As far as I know, the three he brought home from the war were all he ever owned.
All my many Sibs live out-of-state from me. When my Daddy died they wanted no part of clearing out his house and storage unit (s). He had real estate property that had stuff stored in it as well. My Uncle the Attorney handled the sale of real estate. My job was going through all his stuff. Took the better part of 2 years. I sold, gave away, donated, begged people to take SO much stuff. I kept his many mementos and family pieces. After all that work I still get the odd snide remark from a Sib about something of Daddy’s. I love telling them; “You had your chance, and you ran back home and left me, alone to clear the stuff out” Shuts them right up. They knew it was gonna be a big job.
But the effect was that Jack - and Mick - fucked over Jack’s kids. Yet another indication of the importance of taking appropriate steps before you die…
We had a sorta similar situation. When my in-laws divorced, MIL was supposed to have certain property retitled to her and her kids. She never did (for various reasons). FIL is a habitual liar and a bigamist. Is it any surprise that a great deal of money and property that SHOULD have gone to my wife and her 2 sisters, is now titled to Wife #2 and her kids w/ FIL?
Through the years, wife and sister often bitched about their father’s role in this, but I often think their mom was at least as responsible for fucking over her kids.
When my great aunt Gloria passed, my Dad was appointed executor. (He and my Mum were the only relatives who visited my great aunt in her final years.)
There was literally nothing to inherit (the house belonged to the local authority and Gloria had no savings.) Dad sold whatever he could to pay towards funeral expenses, and paid the rest himself.
However Dad was bewildered and upset when various relatives appeared, demanding to know what had happened to various knick-knacks. One unpleasant relative pestered Dad for weeks over a brooch that “Gloria always wanted me to have.”
Note that:
Gloria never said anything about the brooch to my parents
there was no mention in the will
the relative hadn’t seen Gladys for years
the brooch was worth less than £10 ($13)
A pleasant result:
My sister and I always got on well.
When our beloved parents died (both within a month), we kids were left the house and possessions jointly in the wills.
My sister trusted me to appoint lawyers to sell the house (I lived nearby) and split the proceeds equally (which I duly did.)
Before the sale, we kids went round the house taking anything that meant something to us. My sister got the jewellery (I wasn’t bothered about the value, because I knew our Mum would want her to have it) and I took all the books.
When my father died, his will directed his possessions be divided equally between my sisters and I. We decided on disposing of the house and car, smoothly chose what we wanted from his possessions, and then called in the rest of the family to pick things over. One cousin BOUGHT his music collection, with proceeds going to a memorial bench in Dad’s favorite public garden. Aunts and inlaws took furniture, tools, photo gear, paintings, cookware et al. Leftovers were donated. Nobody squabbled over anything. That worked out well!
(Yeah, I have THAT sort of issues in my extended family! :rolleyes:)