Well, it’s not all hypothetical. There are actual places where teachers are armed in the classroom right now, today. I’d be surprised if there were actually decent scientific studies on the matter, which is why I’m pretty confident it’s just a gut feeling / guess-work.
No.
Buying a metal detector is the easy part. And that’s not so easy. The small-town high school where I work would need at least ten archway detectors. Fewer than that and you have to acknowledge that you are severely limiting how students and staff can move throughout the school. This will have an impact on programs that are offered.
Then, one has to figure out how to deal with the large number of facilities that are not attached to the main building of the school. So, detectors will need to be purchased for those areas, too.
But even if you could figure out how to purchase these metal detectors, you have only barely touched how much all of this will actually cost. Each detector would need to be staffed by at least two people. As mentioned by HurricaneDitka, those are the first two to be shot. Still, you need two people so that one can run for help while the other is getting shot. Each detector you install needs these two people.
Then, when will you staff the metal detectors? Our school building is used all evening long. At least some of the detectors will need to be staffed for every band concert, basketball game, PTA meeting, student club meeting, outside community organization events, school play, etc. The list is endless. Some schools also have a night crew that cleans the buildings every night. The metal detectors need to be staffed for them, too. Otherwise, one of them might sneak a weapon in and hide it somewhere. If you’re going to have metal detectors, they must be used 100% of the time.
So, the cost of installing and staffing metal detectors would be ENORMOUS. Not just huge, but downright crippling.
It would be cheaper to buy back every AR-whatever in the whole country.
That’s a pretty declarative answer for only having one example.
Atlanta school shooting raises doubts about metal detectors
There, now you have two examples.
Please see post #246
How about personal experience, since you readily admit we have no actual studies on the difference between arming lots of teachers and not arming lots of teachers? And how about just some common sense?
I’ve seen more than one situation unfold in courtrooms where guns were present – and that was with just those persons authorized to have them. Here’s one: A trained, armed deputy once momentarily turned her back to a fully shackled defendant as she struggled to find the right key to unlock a door. The defendant grabbed her gun and despite the safety strap that was in place on the holster, managed to free the weapon. A quick-thinking public defender and a second deputy wrestled the gun from the defendant. (The public defender also immediately leaped up and said, “We’ll be declaring a conflict of interest, your honor.”)
And before you say, “But… but… another armed person would have made the difference!” let me add that there were 3 other deputies in the courtroom that day, all armed – and it made no difference at all. These situations unfold fast.
The law enforcement tasked with our safety made it clear they were not happy about even the judges having CCW in the courtrooms. Only one judge defied them. The deputies understood the complications that additional guns in the courtrooms created for them to carry out their duties. Most people get that as a matter of common sense.
A metal detector can be useful for stopping kids from bringing guns “just in case” or to show off but pretty obviously useless on someone intent on a murder spree. He is either going to start the murder spree a little earlier or sneak the guns in the day before through a window or something.
Maybe ask yourself a different question:
Would you, faced with an armed criminal intent on your death, be better served cowering and whimpering behind a locked door or behind a locked door with a gun pointed at said door?
I like action movies too.
I’d be interested in an actual answer to QuickSilver’s question though…
“Whimpering and cowering” :rolleyes: Are you addressing the person you want an honest answer from, or your audience?
Again, assuming for the sake of argument that such training makes the average teacher a better marksman than the average cop (seems an absurd assertion, but just for the sake of argument, let’s say it is in fact so).
This still doesn’t address the real issue - which isn’t really about accuracy of aim, but about experience and training to deal with crisis management situations.
In short, it isn’t accuracy of aim that is of sole concern, it is also the decision of when to shoot --and when not to shoot.
That’s more the realm of police training, and I doubt your average person will be as mentally prepared for it, or trained for it, as a police officer.
Here is the video of the report I saw.
I had forgotten that the “Shooter” was sitting on a big soft couch and his “Hostage” was sitting in a soft chair facing him.
I would absolutely prefer to have a gun in my hand if “faced with an armed criminal intent on [my] death”.
The problem is this: what are the relative chances of the following:
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That I’d have a gun ready to hand and loaded the moment I was “faced with an armed criminal intent on [my] death” if I was (say) a teacher in a school that enacted an “arm all teachers” policy; or
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That such a policy would result in me being placed at risk, because fumble-fingered fellow teachers accidentally discharge their guns, or mentally unstable teachers shoot me with one, or a student get their hands on one and shoot me by accident or on purpose?
Both are pretty remote chances, but it is perfectly reasonable to foresee that (1) is far less likely to happen than (2).
Scenario (1) is highly emotionally satisfying; many of us want a chance to play the hero. In the cold light of reason, though, it is reasonable to assume scenario (2) is far more likely.
And, just so I understand your position fully, it’s that you think the police are the gold standard, the shining examples we want everyone emulating? That they’re the ones that generally-speaking exercise appropriate restraint and make good decisions about when to utilize deadly force?
Look, I don’t know what sort of police you know, but every single one that I know is more than happy to repeat some variation of the line “the most important thing is that I go home safe at the end of my shift”. That’s their primary concern, not the judicious use of force. They’re more than happy to apply deadly force with great abandon if they think there’s even a small chance of anything violating rule #1. I could fill this page with liveleak videos of cops making questionable / downright evil shoots if you don’t believe me. Again, I’m of the opinion that the median CCW permit holder is better at “the decision of when to shoot --and when not to shoot” than the median police officer.
ETA: Please read this
Is that what you would do, if you didn’t have your gun? Cower and whimper?
Personally, I would get next to the door, with a chair, desk, or whatever other heavy heftable object is available. If the shooter manages to make it through the locked door, I’ll do what I can there. Might work, might not.
Well, I was interested to hear about the ROTC student who ushered a bunch of kids into the ROTC room, and then unrolled sheets of kevlar to shield them.
Since the NRA has multiple millions to spend on lobbying, I’m sure they could afford to put some kind of bullet-proof shield in every classroom. You know, like riot police have, only bigger.
Kevlar won’t do much against rifles.
Certainly not the gold standard. I’ve met some cops that I think probably would serve as such an example, but I’ve never been with them in a dangerous situation, so it’s hard to say for sure.
If your issue is that CCW’ers are better than cops, that reflects on the community’s standards of hiring and training its law enforcement.
I’ve met a number of cops who say that the most important thing to them is to protect their communities. YMMV.
And just so I understand your position, is it that you would prefer to have a “chair, desk, or whatever other heavy heftable object is available” than a firearm of your own in that situation?