No - my position is that, however horribly bad you believe the police are at their jobs, the situation isn’t going to be improved by handing a bunch of non-police guns and hope that they are going to do better …
… if the police are inadequate, better screening and training of the police is the called for. Not the creation of a new armed force out of teachers, because you can’t trust the cops.
Y’know, someone’s position can generally be understood by the words they write, and even better understood if those words aren’t changed to fit your own perceptions of that person.
edited to add: In my opinion, “So what you are saying is…” should be followed by the words that were said.
Guns in the classroom are likely to be of greater benefit, not where the shooting starts, but holed up in your classroom. There is nothing heroic about sitting in your classroom with your weapon out hoping that your door doesn’t open and the shooter is there, but if it does, however, it is much better to be armed.
I don’t think anyone is advocating the armed teachers go out looking for the shooters, but I’ll bet quite a lot of them would certainly feel better if the time comes that they lock their door and wait ,if they had a gun
I’m SO bookmarking this post. I think it might come in handy the next time there is a thread on police shootings and the righties all jump to defend the cops, no matter what.
So no preference?
You’re welcome to, but I don’t know if my fellow righties will be any more persuaded by my position than the lefties in this thread. Perhaps my biggest break with conservative orthodoxy is on the issue of police. I’m significantly-more skeptical of them than your average Republican.
The desire to stay alive is a basic human instinct, yes, part of simple sanity. Now why would CCW holders have *less *of it than cops, d’ya think? And why don’t those wanting greater regulation of firearms get credit for the same instinct?
Are you familiar with the term “qualified immunity”?
Are you suggesting that a CCW holder will think and *not *shoot the bad guy? Then why is he carrying at all?
Well there’s your problem: there’s no way to defend yourself without a gun. None, according to the NRA and gun rights supporters. It’s simply impossible to defend yourself without a gun; there’s no way to do it.
:rolleyes:
I’m suggesting they’ll be more judicious than your average policeman, at least in part because of the increased legal jeopardy they face compared to the policeman.
I just heard some excerpts from the speech by Wayne LaPierre, head of the NRA. He sounded like a raving lunatic when he said that “the elites” don’t care about children and that he fears a takeover of Congress by “European socialists” in the Democratic Party and “God forbid they get the White House again.” Again? We’ve had a European socialist President and I missed it? Damn.
LaPierre also trotted out the tired old slogan about a good guy with a gun. He said the same thing after the Sandy Hook shooting. In that case, the shooter’s mother owned at least five guns. But she couldn’t even protect herself from her own son.
More likely either pissing their pants in fear, or taking their chance to finally act out the reason they bought the thing in the first place, right? A cop is well-trained not only in how to shoot, but in how to decide *if *to shoot, and how to stay under control while doing it. Civilians not so much.
If a CCW carrier actually wanted to deter a crime, not just react to it by shooting, wouldn’t he carry openly? What deterrent effect does a gun have if nobody sees it? Fuck CCW and its holders. Carry openly, if you really have the courage and principles you tell us you have.
Individual circumstances are total useless. If I wanted to play that game, it would be not trouble at all to pull up videos and reports that show that the other side is just as bad(if not worse)…and it would be totally worthless. All you are doing is cherry-picking.
I think we are missing a trick here folks.
Patently what’s required is a wall. Lots of walls. A Great Wall.
If I can come up with five links that have stories of surgeons accidentally leaving objects behind after sewing up, would you let your next door neighbor do your next surgery?
Depends. Is a real surgeon available? If so, no, I would not. If not, am I likely to bleed to death while waiting for one to become available? Under those circumstances, yeah, I’d ask my neighbor to do the best he can.
CCW is that same sort of “in-a-pinch” scenario. If I see some slowly-progressing crime, with no one in immediate danger, I’m definitely going to call the cops and let them handle the situation. OTOH, if I’m in a dark alley, about to figuratively-bleed-to-death, I’ll do the best I can with what’s available.
All of them would be valid surgeons-I said nothing about fake surgeons in my scenario…but nice avoidance technique you’ve got going there.
This isn’t my story, but a friend’s:
I was hanging out with some old buddies, several of them military veterans (and one former cop), talking about politics and guns. A few of them are CCW (concealed carry weapon) holders, and one was armed even at this get together (he was always armed). Yes, a dangerous topic, but we’ve been friends a long time and so we can argue without getting too upset. Most of them think that the answer to school shootings is more guns – ex-cops or vets as guards in the schools, and guns available for teachers and faculty. I disagreed, as did one other friend.
At some point I stepped away to use the bathroom. There was a paper bag in the bathroom with some old medication in it. I emptied the paper bag, blew it up with air, and snuck back onto the porch where we were hanging out. Before anyone noticed me, I slammed my hands together with the bag in the middle, with a tremendous BANG!!! Every single one of my friends clapped their hands to their ears and jerked their bodies away from the noise. At the same time, I crooked my finger, pointed it at each one, and loudly said “Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang…”. I easily “shot” each one of my friends with my finger before they even understood what was happening, much less reacted. Mind you, these were mostly military veterans and an ex-cop, all hanging out and chatting.
The subject changed after that.