I never felt the Ramseys intentionally killed Jon-Benet, but their behavior right after the crime, coupled with some rather unusual clues and circumstances, led me to suspect that either they were covering up an accidental death or a murder caused by their son.
Then yesterday, when an MPSIMS thread first mentioned an arrest, I began searching for the story online. No reports were yet available but I did come across a story that included something I’d never read before, something I assume was generally held from the public for a time just because it was so damn disturbing. It was a description of how she died, of the weapons used. She was garrotted and the garrott was tightned with the turns of one of Patsy’d paintbrushes. The brush was at some point broken and the killer sexually assaulted the six year old with it. The were little scratch marks on her throat, indicating she was conscious during this, trying to loosen the choking cord with her little fingers. It damn near made me cry reading it, even typing it now. That’s when I knew there was no way in hell her parents had done this. It was just too horrible of a murder. At worst I thought them capable of a coverup after an accident. But this was a brutal assault with perverted sexual overtones.
I do apologize to the Ramseys for earlier suspicions. And I hope this really is the guy but, as mentioned, he may well be an attention seeking nut.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
So she was kidnapped from school at some point before, returned to her family/school (not sure which), then the guy came back later and tried to take her again?
[/QUOTE]
No, not kidnapped - just taken home. Walked home - like after school. Maybe he was some type of acquaintance.
[QUOTE=Omega Glory]
So she was kidnapped from school at some point before, returned to her family/school (not sure which), then the guy came back later and tried to take her again?
[/QUOTE]
Not kidnapped exactly. I guess he’s saying that he walked her home, that the parents were away at a Christmas party or something, and that he spent some time exploring the house. Then he left and came back that night (actually, I’m not even sure it was supposed to have been the same day).
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
We’ll see if his DNA matches what was found on the body.
His ex could be mistaken. If you asked me how I spent Thanksgiving in 1997, I’m not sure if I could dig out an accurate answer from memory and I might mix a couple of years up.
[/QUOTE]
Unless you know for sure that every year of your married life, you spent Christmas in your own house, with your spouse and family. I know exactly where I have been each Christmas Eve & Christmas since 1999, when I was married, because my husband and I have always spent it together in our own home.
Not many details yet, but I’m posting this in the pit so I can shout out a giant FUCK YOU to everyone in the media that convicted and crucified her parents for all those years. Are we going to see any apologies? I doubt it.
[/QUOTE]
So, if it turns out this guy is just some innocent (of this crime) nutjob, then we’ll have to shout out a giant FUCK YOU to you for “convicting” him here? Or will you come back and do an Emily Littela? *“Are we going to see any apologies? I doubt it.” * So do I.
I mean, how hypocritcal can you get? You say “fuck you” to the media and other dudes who “convicted” JBR’s parents in the public opinion, and here you are crucifying this loon before the ink is even dry on the first news story reporting it- and already, before the day is even over- there are already doubts. Sure, this crazy dude could be guilty, but damn, this is one of the best PIT examples of hypocrisy I have even seen.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Not kidnapped exactly. I guess he’s saying that he walked her home, that the parents were away at a Christmas party or something, and that he spent some time exploring the house. Then he left and came back that night (actually, I’m not even sure it was supposed to have been the same day).
[/QUOTE]
Ah, okay. Here in my town an elementary student wouldn’t be allowed to walk home from school unless they were picked up by someone on an approved list. I figured this was the case in most suburbs, so wondered how an apparent stranger managed to spend time with her after school without anyone knowing. Thanks.
[QUOTE=lieu]
I never felt the Ramseys intentionally killed Jon-Benet, but their behavior right after the crime, coupled with some rather unusual clues and circumstances, led me to suspect that either they were covering up an accidental death or a murder caused by their son.
Then yesterday, when an MPSIMS thread first mentioned an arrest, I began searching for the story online. No reports were yet available but I did come across a story that included something I’d never read before, something I assume was generally held from the public for a time just because it was so damn disturbing. It was a description of how she died, of the weapons used. She was garrotted and the garrott was tightned with the turns of one of Patsy’d paintbrushes. The brush was at some point broken and the killer sexually assaulted the six year old with it. The were little scratch marks on her throat, indicating she was conscious during this, trying to loosen the choking cord with her little fingers. It damn near made me cry reading it, even typing it now. That’s when I knew there was no way in hell her parents had done this. It was just too horrible of a murder. At worst I thought them capable of a coverup after an accident. But this was a brutal assault with perverted sexual overtones.
I do apologize to the Ramseys for earlier suspicions. And I hope this really is the guy but, as mentioned, he may well be an attention seeking nut.
Right now, it’s all up to the DNA.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. If the father was psycho enough to kill her in this way, then there would be a history of sex abuse or other evidence against him. And mothers may snap and kill their kids but I have never heard of one killing her own daughter while sexually assaulting her too. Usually when parents kill their kids they try to make it look like an accidental death like a drowning or a fall, not stage an elaborate kidnapping / sex assault hoax. There are much easier and less conspicuous ways of killing your child then doing something like this.
I read somewhere that this guy used to live near them in Georgia, maybe he was an aquaintance of theirs after all. And I thought the notes he sent to Patsy expressing ‘remorse’ about the killing were odd too, although for all we know the police have been quietly investigating this guy for months or years. Or the notes could have been expressing remorse as in “I am sorry your child was killed” and not “I am sorry I killed your child.” Either way I think it is pretty common for a but like this to try to stay involved with the family and the case after the fact, it seems like the ones who can actually commit the crime and then never tell a soul or speak of it again are the rare ones.
[QUOTE=Rilchiam]
You know what’s messed up? I can’t remember which link I saw it in, maybe the Denver Post slide show, but a psychic gave an impression of the murderer, and it looks eerily like Karr. But maybe s/he talked to someone who had reason to suspect Karr. I’m not about to start taking psychics seriously because of this one thing; I’m just saying.
[/QUOTE]
What did this psychic say? “Ooh, I’m getting an impression. He’s white, in his 30’s, average looking…” :rolleyes:
Latest I’m hearing is Karr says he drugged her and had sex with her, but the autopsy didn’t show the presence of drugs.
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena]
Unless you know for sure that every year of your married life, you spent Christmas in your own house, with your spouse and family. I know exactly where I have been each Christmas Eve & Christmas since 1999, when I was married, because my husband and I have always spent it together in our own home.
[/QUOTE]
Bully for you, but what does that have to do with the price of tea? You know where you were, therefore everyone else must know where THEY were?
We spend some of our holidays at home and others with family. I honestly don’t think I’d be able to remember where I spent a particular Christmas even two or three years ago, much less ten. Human memory isn’t very reliable in general, so I don’t think the ex’s statement means very much at this point. I’d rather wait for the DNA. I have to think that all the law enforcement involved with tracking this guy down and working on his extradiction have asked all these same questions and that they wouldn’t be going this public, with this much effort, if they really weren’t satisfied that this guy was a viable suspect.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Bully for you, but what does that have to do with the price of tea? You know where you were, therefore everyone else must know where THEY were?
[/QUOTE]
I’m not getting your hostility here. S/he is simply providing an expanation as to why the wife might have automatically known. S/he did not appear to imply that this was the case for everyone - merely a possiblity. I’m not sure why you’re being such an ass about it.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Bully for you, but what does that have to do with the price of tea? You know where you were, therefore everyone else must know where THEY were?
[/QUOTE]
What I am saying is that she may have a very good reason that she remembers that she was with him. YOU certainly don’t know that she DOESN’T have a good reason. I was just throwing out one possibility for how she might be pretty certain. The fact that it was Christmas does make it a little more likely that she might remember, don’t you think?
I am starting to have the same opinion of this pit thread that DrDeth does. For someone who is SO OUTRAGED at what the media & the public did to the Ramsays, you seem pretty anxious to do the same to this guy.
[QUOTE=DrDeth]
So, if it turns out this guy is just some innocent (of this crime) nutjob, then we’ll have to shout out a giant FUCK YOU to you for “convicting” him here? Or will you come back and do an Emily Littela? *“Are we going to see any apologies? I doubt it.” * So do I.
I mean, how hypocritcal can you get? You say “fuck you” to the media and other dudes who “convicted” JBR’s parents in the public opinion, and here you are crucifying this loon before the ink is even dry on the first news story reporting it- and already, before the day is even over- there are already doubts. Sure, this crazy dude could be guilty, but damn, this is one of the best PIT examples of hypocrisy I have even seen.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Bully for you, but what does that have to do with the price of tea? You know where you were, therefore everyone else must know where THEY were?
We spend some of our holidays at home and others with family. I honestly don’t think I’d be able to remember where I spent a particular Christmas even two or three years ago, much less ten. Human memory isn’t very reliable in general, so I don’t think the ex’s statement means very much at this point. I’d rather wait for the DNA. I have to think that all the law enforcement involved with tracking this guy down and working on his extradiction have asked all these same questions and that they wouldn’t be going this public, with this much effort, if they really weren’t satisfied that this guy was a viable suspect.
[/QUOTE]
Most people remember where they spent their holidays, or at least remember that they never spent the holidays in Colorado. Besides even if she didn’t, she could look in photo album. It’s not like she was sitting next to him in Thailand when he was arrested and made this statement off the top of her head.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I haven’t said that he’s guilty.
[/QUOTE]
Neither did any of the media that you are accusing of convicting the Ramseys, except–maybe–the supermarket tabloids. They stated the facts as they were known at the time and may have indulged in some speculation based on those facts and the same precedents that law enforcement bases its speculations on.
You are being awfully shrill on this, even by the standards of the Pit. Perhaps you should lean back and chill. Unless you are being so loud to cover up something. Where were YOU on Christmas Eve night, 1996? Me, I was at home with my family; my wife can support my alibi.