Q.
What do you call three suspicious but unconfirmed civilians carrying large objects around in the dark next to a military base of an occupying force in a country with recent military action and in a zone where sniper and guerrilla attacks are common?
A.
Targets
By any stretch of the imagination these guys were at best foolish innocents. You could be a foolish innocent flying your plane over the whitehouse and any intelligent person would understand why you were blown up.
I pray to God you would not give your Dad that advice if the sky were being patrolled by enemy helicopters from an invading army.
The reason I know that that is beneath you is because I know that you’re way smarter than I am. First, Bush never said the war is over. Second, there are soldiers engaged in combat against people who pretend to be ambulance drivers but who have bombs strapped to their bodies. It is a combat zone.
oh come on. Yes, we all remember “mission accomplished”. but I’d have thought we all recognize that Iraq today is indeed, a combat zone.
WRT the issue posed by the OP, I fear that we are in a situation that no matter what actions are taken by individual soldiers, our motives remain suspect to many, especially those native to the area. This is a situation that has been created by a long list of poor decisions, unrealistic expectations, complete lack of common sense, combined with a critical lack of planning.
the combined result has made Americans anywhere in the ME moving targets to increasing numbers of people. (MHO). and not done a lick of good in increasing the safety of any American anywhere.
Well wring, I just hope we don’t see these same people in here complaining when Iraqis fire on and kill american soldiers purely on suspicion.
What comes around goes around. And it’s going to get a lot uglier before it gets all smoothed over.
It doesn’t take an army to shoot a mortar, just a few guys.
Are you even remotely familiar with the concept of guerilla warfare?
First-- I want to say that I’m conflicted as to what our soldiers should have done with “the third iraqi”. As others have mentioned, I’m not sure what the military tells our soldiers to do in that situation.
Well, pretty much everything being talked about in this thread can be considered speculation.
Where did this come from? I think Bush is a tool. Moving on.
Ok, I’ll concede that maybe my “innocent until proven guilty” comment doesn’t really apply to this situation. Instead, I’ll just direct more focus to the suspicious behavior that seems to have been occurring.
You’re trying to shift the focus here. Regardless of what Shrub & Co. declared, anyone who truthfully thinks the war is over needs to pull their head out of their ass.
Why exactly does that matter?
LilShieste
It matters because we apparently couldn’t overtake THREE GUYS with ONE WEAPON in any other way but murdering them.
I am familiar (a bit) with Guerilla warfare, but I find it interesting that we get our panties all in a bunch and go ballistic when OUR soldiers are killed in the middle of it, but it’s all good fun when theirs are.
Do you see anyone complaining? We’re analyzing ONE specific event. We’ll analyze the next specific event when it happens.
Suspicion, hell! 
They do it purely on account.
Southern Apalachian expression, for those unfamiliar. He does it purely on account = He does it just to do it.
And in what sense an injured guy watched over by a couple helicopters is a threat?
<Archie Bunker>
Would you be happier if we pushed them out of windows?
</AB>
BTW, you stop people with weapons by killing them or injuring them badly. It’s been this way since the dawn of time.
I would say a lot of people have their panties in a buch over these 3 Iraqis getting killed. In case you’ve missed the widespread outrage over this video. :rolleyes:
Right Lib, they’re savages…we’re noble freedom fighters.
Or by arresting them or avoiding said people. Needless to say I don’t think we should still be in Iraq.
And you’re angered by their outrage because the killings, to you were a good thing, no?
Please, jarbabyj, I really hope you see the problem with this analogy.
Why exactly are they firing on and killing our soldiers now? Personally, if the militant iraqis only fired on soldiers who were acting suspiciously (hell, let’s go with soldiers abusing prisoners), I think that would be better than firing on and killing any/all american soldiers period.
Now this is something we both agree on.
I can’t speak for flickster, but it seems to me that, generally speaking, there are mixed feelings about the wounded iraqi.
LilShieste
What they COULD have done is put a few rounds in the trucks to disable them, drop a flare to make it easier for ground troops to find the guys, and taken some prisoners. Ones who REALLY might have some useful information instead of guys they rounded up in a street sweep.
Watching them shoot a wounded man who was trying to reach shelter sickened me and made me ashamed of our military, a position that recent revelations have not eased.
So what you’re saying is that it’s absolutely impossible that there is any other explanation for those people being outside at night? You’re 100% positive it was a weapon?
I think the point is that sure, we could “shoot to scatter” unless we’ve caught them 100% redhanded, but letting them go might result in many more deaths.
You ever see Saving Private Ryan? They let the dude go, and he simply rejoins comes back and kills a bunch of them. I’m not suggesting they execute him either, I’m just saying that there is a potential price to letting them go.
Do you think they’re going to go, “well shit that was close, I better give this life up, and go back to my farm”?
well - correct me if I err, but - isn’t that pretty much what’s going on now? ie, (certain) Iraqis firing on Americans - let’s not figure out if they’re soldiers, they’re all scum?
which was, of course, my point. Because of the long list of stuff (from ever changing lists of why we were there in the first place, through the lack of strategic planning, the pie in the sky expectations, on through the most recent pictures of the prisoners- especially considering our own moral outrage when video tapes of our captive soldiers being questioned ) has done nothing more than paint a fucking target on the back of every single person who remotely looks American over there.
and, of course, done shit for our safety here.
yes, that’s what’s going on now, and I see Americans calling those Iraqis cowards and assholes and like lieu said “chickenshits”.
but when a team of Americans hide in a helicopter and cherry pick three suspicious iraqis, we’re supposed to hail them as heroes.
THAT’S what I’m not understanding.
Avoiding the people trying that are trying to kill you doesn’t really solve the problem.
Neither do I
Not angered one bit.