YES! I’m aware that we are generally using the same tactics as religious folks use. We make offensive billboards mocking other people’s beliefs. We erect atheist monuments on government property. I hear insults towards believers all the time in the atheist community. The latest is I’ve seen is this:
Why are atheist defending this guy? Keeping religion out of classrooms works both ways.
Like it says in my title, AS IT STANDS, I don’t like some of the shit certain atheists try to do, because I don’t think it’s at all effective. I think if we’re looking to change people’s minds, we’re not going to do it by basically telling them how dumb they are. I find kindness is much more effective. Just because religious assholes do something doesn’t mean we have to stoop to their level.
There might be some opinions and arguments that change my mind, but right now, I’m just wondering why we have to be such dicks.
The article says the professor who teaches biology and evolution, and introduced the slide to spark a debate and “to stimulate discussion about evolution and creation.” I guess he was successful. And those statements seem to be factual. Heck, the slice and I presume the class is called “Bio 101 What About Creationism?”. No mistaking what the class is about.
The article then states the offended Christians (A creationist in a biology class? What’s he doing there?) scoured the professor’s on-line postings and claim he mocks pro-life groups, Fox news, and conservatives, etc. I don’t see any facts to back that up, so that’s just opinion.
But I will defend the guy. He’s teaching biology and evolution and wanted students “exposed to examples of bad science.”
I think it is very effective. It’s good for people to know about atheists and atheism. It’s good to point out conflicts between religion and science.
His slide didn’t call anyone “dumb” as you claim. He’s not being a dick. The college republicans group claim the professor was trying to “shame” them. How? Because some creationists and Christians don’t like what he is doing, they are trying to attack him on a personal level and ignoring his argument. Those are some pretty good examples of what the professor is trying to point out- that facts get lost in bad reasoning.
What do you think was ‘dickish’ about the slide? The word '“magic”?
I’m not seeing how it was offensive. Just because people react to it negatively doesn’t make it offensive. Provocative, yes. But that’s what college classes are designed to do: provoke a discussion.
. . . What exactly was factually incorrect about that slide? Maybe “poof” would be a better term than “zap.” Apart from actually pointing out what Creationism states, which by its very nature is absurd, I’m not seeing anything wrong here.
I’m not obligated to respect someone’s taste in music, so why must I respect their taste in superstition? Religion is not race, or sexuality, or gender identity, or anything involuntary.
Because the Theory of Evolution is “genetics”, “adaption”, and “natural selection” and the [DEL][COLOR=“Black”]Theory[/DEL][/COLOR] [DEL][COLOR=“Black”]Hypothesis[/DEL][/COLOR] Doctrine of Creationism (and CDesign Proponentsistsism) is “zap!", “magic!”, and “God did it!”.
No. I didn’t mean to imply that the slide was ‘dickish’, but I can see where it might sound as if that’s what I was saying. The image of Christ, (even in “Buddy” form) shouldn’t be displayed in a classroom at all. Why would a professor bother with a debate on the subject matter when it’s not something up for debate?
Maybe you’re right though.
So you think being a dick to them is going to reconvert them? I’m looking for tolerance, not reconversion.
Reconversion does happen, but I would guess not very often. I just want people to change their attitudes about atheism. I want them to feel free to approach us like they would anyone else.
I know someone who was bigoted against homosexuals, until they actually spent time with a group of them. That cured his prejudice because they were KIND to him.
I might go back on my understanding of this whole mess… I just don’t want to turn into what I despise so much. I hope both of you and the people to post after you Dopers understand that I’m always open to hearing other people’s opinions, and I don’t exactly trust my own all the time. That’s why I made this thread. It’s in GD because it might spark debate – even by me. I do, however, like to think I have an open mind.
I was hoping you would post here Der Trihs, I think you’re an intelligent person, and if anyone on here could influence my feelings on the subject matter, it’s you!
For one thing, the link you provided isn’t working for me for some reason.
Yes, I know believers erected the 10 commandments first. I think we should continue to fight for them to be taken down. I see what your saying, but I don’t think government land should be a dumping ground for everyone’s beliefs being displayed, period. I just wonder if we’re sending the right message by erecting a monument at all.
Maybe we have the right to insult them, but they have the right to believe in whatever they want. I don’t respect religion, but I respect people’s right to think what they want to think… as long as they respect me and my feelings.
Like I said before, I don’t want to turn into what I hate.
In my experience, telling other people what to do tends to be a waste of time. Doubly so for telling people that the way they’re telling other people what to do (well, stop doing) isn’t right.
Once someone does a double blind study conclusively showing which method of pointing out that religion doesn’t make sense is the most convincing I’m sure we’ll all adopt that method. Until that time, why not let everyone do it the way they feel is best?
That was my thought. There was no reason to bring this up in a biology class except to make fun of it. Religion doesn’t belong in a science class-- neither as advocacy nor as ridicule.
I don’t care who “does it more” or who “did it first”. Don’t be a jerk is a good rule IRL, too.
Fair enough. I just know that people are often surprised to hear I’m a non-believer. “…But you’re so nice!?” they say.
Just in MY EXPERIENCE, insults don’t work in changing people’s minds about the “evil” atheists.
If it’s for the greater good, we certainly deserve the right to combat ignorance with harshness.
I OFTEN change my mind about the shit I post on these boards for example… but people who attack me aren’t going to get very far. It’s the people that aren’t douches that I listen to.
Yeah, pretty much. Oh look, a biology professor took a shot at creationism in a lecture about evolution. OH MY GOD WHERE ARE MY PEARLS I MUST CLUTCH THEM! And never mind that his portrayal was neither disrespectful nor inaccurate. Creationism really does boil down to “magic” and “god did it”. The most disrespectful thing about that slide was the use of buddy Jesus, and if you’re getting offended over that, then you need to get a life. Indeed, to quote him on his blog:
So basically what I thought - pointing out the discrepancy between real science and religious doctrine, something too many people actually don’t get. You want to know why we’re defending this guy? Because he did nothing wrong and he’s getting a colossal amount of shit from the least-persecuted group in the fucking planet - affluent white American Christians.
I don’t know. I’m quiet about it until someone brings up God. I just smile and tell them I’m an Atheist or a Secular Humanist, and they are shocked. I come off as non-threatening. I just wonder if they take it home with them…
“I met a nice guy today, who I learned wasn’t a believer.”
I **hope **that perhaps they can except people more if they meet someone who isn’t insulting their intelligence, just stating, un-apologetically, but non-judgmentally, that they are not part of their club.
I do agree it would be good to have more visible “nice atheists”. Personally, I don’t feel the need to continuously point out that I don’t subscribe to any religion, and I’m glad the converse is true for most people on the other side. But I guess that this means that if I’m being nice there’s an opportunity lost for others to learn that it’s possible to be nice and not believe in god at the same time.
BTW, are there any atheist charities, similar to religion-based charities? (I.e., not charity for atheists but charity by atheists.) And maybe we need some symbol we can wear.