Good post, I see things similarly. However, I think you are portraying one end of the pro-life spectrum with the above, not all pro-lifers are opposed to birth control and sex education.
Strict, conservative sexual morality was once appropriate. It is irresponsible to risk having a child you or your society are not equipped to raise. This is especially true given how dangerous child birth was to the mother before the advent of modern medicine. The alternative to strict morality is shown by the native Tahitians, who were sexually permissive, but as a consequence frequently practised infanticide on any unwanted children. This changed radically with the advent of reliable birth control. Many conservatives today seem to think that sex itself is immoral, instead of the possible consequences of unprotected sex (unwanted pregnancy and spread of STDs). I don’t think that is a rational position.
Yes, absolutely. It’s not really about the orgasm per se either, it’s the whole experience of getting there. To draw an analogy, all kinds of different food will fill you up, but that doesn’t mean eating a steak is the same as eating an ice cream cone.
Good comparison. For me, masturbation is kind of like eating one of those “nutrition bars” - it satisfies, but afterwards I’m kind of “meh, that did the trick, now I don’t have to pay attention to that need for a while.” Sex is like eating “real” food - it can be a quick bite to fill you up, or a long drawn-out feast. Sometimes it’s mindblowingly awesome, sometimes it’s not so great (hopefully not that often!), usually it’s at least pretty damned nice.
I will be upfront and state that I am pro life. Not doctor murdering, picketing the clinic, make women’s lives miserable pro-life, but pro life nonetheless. I am curious about the rejection of the adoption option.
Why do you conflate adoption and being “cast aside”? From your wording, it sounds like you weren’t adopted, and you say that you believe in adoption whole heartedly, but then you say you could never be willing to do that to a child. I don’t understand the seeming conflict between those two. Lacunae Matata found adoption to be the better choice for her (kudos), albeit more physically and emotionally difficult. Did you see it that way too?
I don’t want to devolve your very brave thread into a discussion of the issue of abortion (the rhetoric is already tough to bear), but I’m curious about the rejection of adoption as a viable option.
I had one around the time you did, and I am wondering why you didn’t get ansthesia? Mine cost about 300 also so there was no pain. I just want to say to anyone who is about to have one, don’t lift anything heavy afterwards.
Incorrect. Most women require ADDITIONAL stimulation to reach orgasm with PIV sex, that is, they can’t orgasm from simply inserting getting a penis inserted into their vagina and then screwing. However, if these same women are stimulated either before or during the main event, they can have a dandy orgasm, thankyouverymuch. Many, probably even most, heterosexual women enjoy penetration.
Obviously. I’m as confused by you and Captain Amazing as you seem to be by us.
Just like eating, sex is a primordial instinct, but it isn’t just about surviving or procreating. You’ve mentioned in the past that you’re overweight, I believe. Why? Because food tastes good and you eat more of it than is necessary for survival.
If abortion weren’t legal, that would almost certainly effect my sexual choices. I’m not sure exactly how; we’re in hypothetical land now, so I don’t know how to answer. But, yes, it would have an effect.
I knew that pregnancy was a possibility, which is why, before I had sex with my current partner, I explained to him that I would not be having more kids. I think it’s a good decision for all sexually active heterosexual people to have.
And, I’ll just say this, to skip any more questions trying to tease it out. Speaking for myself only, abortion is no big deal to me. It’s expensive, it’s painful, and it’s damn inconvenient, but morally? It’s neutral for me. Lots of people don’t feel like I do, maybe even a majority. I use birth control because it’s cheaper and a hell of a lot easier than abortion. But, if I got pregnant tomorrow, I’d have another one, and I wouldn’t feel particularly bad about it. It just doesn’t bother me. It certainly doesn’t stop me from having sex.
If you have chosen to remain a virgin, and/or you cannot understand why people want to have sex, I don’t think I can explain it to you. I mean this completely non-snarkily. I remember being pre-pubescent and having questions similar to these, but no one could explain it to me then, and no one can explain it to you now, I think. You asked if it’s a biological urge that overrides rational thinking; it may be. Maybe that is the best way to think of it, for you. I find it to be very rational, personally, but then I’m using information you aren’t capable of having, in a way. The rewards of a joyful sex life are very real to me; pleasure, affection, excitement… They are absolutely worth the hassle of birth control and/or pregnancy termination. I’m sorry I can’t explain it any better than that.
Nine months of physical and emotional stress plus childbirth come to mind, as well as a degree of physical danger and permanent damage to the body. All for the purpose of putting one more child up for adoption when there are already more children that need adoption than there are parents willing to take them.
I think you need to read the OP again. **Anaamika was adopted, by her aunt, and the family shunned her birth mother because she got pregnant out of wedlock. They taught 'Mika that her mother abandoned her, because in their culture, that’s what it was, and at the same time, they made it impossible for her mother to maintain contact with her (whether or not she wanted to is another question.)
That’s pretty messed up.
'Mika, thanks for sharing your story. I chose differently, for different reasons, but I appreciate hearing other people’s tales, and I absolutely respect your decision, you know that.
I’m another who started out pro-choice and became, if possible, even MORE pro-choice after becoming a mother. Motherhood is hard, and it’s draining and dangerous and forces your life into paths you might never have wanted your life to go. It should never be forced on any person who doesn’t want it. That way lies resentment at best and abuse at worst.
I can agree with everything in this statement and still believe that abortion should be legal and left up to the private, uninterfered-with decision of the woman. You can make society as perfect as possible, but there will always be some women who, finding themselves, pregnant, do not want to carry the child to term. And they will be perfectly justified in doing so without any explanation to anyone else or society at large. It’s not just a matter of a nine-month medical condition followed by a wonderful granting of a gift to some adoptive parent. It’s a complete unalterable changing a woman, physically, mentally, and emotionally that she should be allowed to choose against, regardless of what anyone else thinks or believes.
Captain Amazing, this question of yours is simply baffling and is something I would not expect from an adult human being. There’s no way to respond in a reasonable manner to your question seriously without further understanding of your own feelings, beliefs, and attitudes towards sex. And that means explaining issues such as how old are you? Are you a man or a woman? Have you ever had sex? If so, what kind of sex was it? Did you enjoy it? Have you ever suffered sex-related trauma? Do you have sexual urges? Do you have desires to engage in intimate relationships with other people? Etc.
Most people picture an Ozzie and Harriet home, with understanding and level headed parents. If you got pregnant, why didn’t you go to your parents ? The suburbs are full of mean and abusive parents. For many, telling your parents is not an option.
Long before I was able to orgasm via PIV sex (I was 36 and had been having sex for 20 years already) I loved penetration. In fact, my favorite time was after orgasm if he gave me orgasm orally. Then it was “inside! NOW!” Yum.
No, it’s not awkward at all to answer questions about my sex life. To answer your questions, I’m a 35 year old man. I’ve never had sex, or suffered sex-related trauma. I’ve had sexual urges, but I don’t have any particular desire to engage in intimate sexual relationships with other people.
Fair questions, and thank you for your honest answer. I think the only way to answer your question, given your background, is that you are an outlier on the spectrum of sexual drives, and it’s just different for most people.
This really isn’t meant to be insulting or dismissive. I think it’s a lot like I will never “get” why some people like sports so much, spend money on tickets and travel to big games, reschedule important work or personal plans so they can watch sports on TV, etc. I’m just not built that way; I don’t consider sports important to my life, and if they all disappeared tomorrow, I probably wouldn’t notice. But I can intellectually understand that some people find sports very interesting and fulfilling. It brings people together and improves their relationships. It confers health and emotional benefits to those who participate, it drives a significant portion of our economy, etc. Just like sex.
To answer your questions, I’m a 35 year old man. I’ve never had sex, or suffered sex-related trauma. I’ve had sexual urges, but I don’t have any particular desire to engage in intimate sexual relationships with other people.