I’m a bit fishy smelling myself
:o
Vivian, if I understand you right, you’re African-Canadian? Did your dad come from Africa or something?
Now how much in common can an African immigrant to Canada have in common with people in the USA descended from centuries of slavery and Jim Crow that you never had to experience? How much in common can you have with them apart from color?
Early on I noticed that it was easy to tell African immigrants apart from black Americans at a single glance. Even when there’s no difference in outward appearance. I mentioned this to a friend who agreed and said: “It’s 'cause of the vibes.”
Dear Black Woman,
Do you notice when men “check you out”? While I don’t believe in race or essentialist racial differences per se, cultural differences caused by the perception of race are real. I have a sense that Black women, far more than white, Asian, or Latina women, are highly aware of it when men “check them out”. I definitely sense a much heightened awareness — and wariness — emanating from the presence of African-American women if I am anywhere near them. I want to say I love them, I cherish them, I’m no threat to them … but don’t know how to explain to them. Their guard is up whenever I’m around. (That’s in general; there are several individual Black ladies I’ve met who are just as open and friendly as anyone.)
I want to address the issue of “acting black” and “acting white.”
I live and work in Detroit. Most of my colleagues are black. While there are many people of both races here who act in many ways that are interchangeable, there is certainly a difference in style of language and interaction between the races that holds true for most of us. No one is saying that both blacks and whites don’t laugh, cry, love their children, etc. But a few minutes’ observation will demonstrate that there are differences in style between blacks and whites such that it makes perfect sense to talk about “acting black” and “acting white.”
The linguistic differences are obvious. Whether you agree that ebonics is a legitimate language or not, IMHO you have to be in serious denial not to hear that blacks and whites can have different ways of speaking. I love hearing the blacks at work talk to each other; they drop into what almost sounds like another language, then switch back to include me.
Interaction style is another thing I have noticed, although more among urban blacks than Southern blacks. For example, at a recent farewell lunch, a black friend commented on how “fake nice” most whites are. Her interpretation of what I see as polite behavior is that it is fake. Meanwhile, I am often struck by how rude and abrasive blacks can be, which is my interpretation of what she said she thinks of as “being real.” Neither of us are right or wrong, but our interaction styles are different. Meanwhile, I have heard other black friends say whites don’t know how to let loose and have fun, whereas I have heard whites complain about how loud and rowdy blacks are when they are having fun. Again, no right or wrong, just different. I am not saying whites don’t get loud, be abrasive, etc., but IMHO, there are broad differences that apply in general, although of course not to everyone or every situation.
To me, to say that there are no differences between ethnic groups (broadening my scope to include all different groups, not just black and white) is to go back in time to the whole “we are all the same” 1950s ideal. First of all, it is not true, and second, geez, where is the fun in that?
To me, it is more oppressive and yes, racist, to homogenize folks. Vive la difference!
Saying that blacks and whites tend to “act” differently is not the same as saying they should act differently or that there is something inherent about them that causes them to act differently.
Those saying that they don’t even have a clue what “acting black” or “acting white” means, really trying to say that they haven’t noticed the different cultures that exist in the United States (and perhaps Canada, I couldn’t really say) between blacks and whites?
Just as one example, have you not noticed that there are almost two entirely separate popular cultures in the United States? The number one television show among blacks is generally near the bottom among whites and in the low-100s overall. Blacks, on average, do not watch the same television shows as whites (in the United States, at least).
So, there is one example of where a mixed-couple may act more like the other race. Perhaps the white person is more open to television shows popular among blacks and the black person is more open to television shows popular among whites.
This is not to say that there is something inherent about being black or white that produces a preference for certain television shows. This is not to say it is a good or bad thing that this exists. But it is silly to deny that there are different cultures between the black community and the white community (again, in the United States; can’t speak for other regions).
Of course there are “cross-overs.” That’s because we are talking culture and preferences.
I have a white friend who “acts Japanese”. This is not to say that he speaks with an accent and is shorter than average. It is to say that he immerses himself in Japanese culture.
Vivian–
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Welcome to the boards! I hope you’re not overwhelmed with questions. We need to get more black posters here, truly; maybe I should get my wife on here.
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Speaking of the wife, I have a hair stylist question for you: do you have only 1 stylist that you stick with, or do you go to different ones? My wife and I are still fairly new to Chicago and she’s having a hell of a time finding a good stylist in our neighborhood worth sticking with.
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Do all black women have this problem, or is it just my wife that keeps getting stuck with lousy perms/sets/braids?
Here I go again.
I am black. Any way I act is the way a black person would act. If I wear clogs and put my finger in a leaky dyke (and I don’t mean andygirl!) this is the way a black person would act. If I put on a kilt and drink green beer on St. Patrick’s Day, this is the way a black person would act. If I smoked blunts and drank 40’s all day, this is also the way a black person would act. People don’t act a certain way because of the color of their skin. Am I acting “more black” when I put Destiny’s Child on the CD player then when I put The Offspring?
These expectations, these color codes, these stereotypes are a lazy person’s idea of interacting. Do you white people think you live up to my or vivian’s idea of how you act?
It’s character, not color.
Snipped from breaknrun’s reply above;
Well, breaknrun, that hasn’t been my experience. And some white women get quite ‘pissed’ at white men who date black women.
Vivian
Good morning.
Thanks for this very enlightening thread. And for your honest answers.
My question;
Is ‘size’ a factor in your preference for black men? 
And are black men better lovers partly because they have better teachers?
My preference is for pale skin, black hair, and brown eyes. Nothing racial about it. Even though I’m (mostly) white.
Welcome to the SDMB!
Peace,
mangeorge (No, it wasn’t that funny. )
Jodi said:
“I have always taken these “ask the so-and-so” threads as being posted as sort of “I am representative of this class or characteristic, so ask me questions about it.” But if I can “just be honest” in turn – I am not going to consider you representative of the class of black women, because I would devoutly love to continue to believe that, as a class, they are not as racist as you appear to me to be.”
But why should you think that Vivian represents all black folks or even one particular class of black people? I’m confused. I wouldn’t think to do that to any other gender or cultural perspective. In this forum right now, we have several “Ask the ___” threads. A good example is the “Ask the Muslim Guy” thread. I have enjoyed reading it and asking him questions, but I am not naive enough to think that he represents ALL Muslims. He provides one perspective, his own, and that is all. Reading his thread is the first step in my educating myself on a culture and a religion about whom up to three weeks ago I knew next to nothing. The next step for me, if I’m really serious about educating myself on Muslims, is to read books treating the topic of Islam and the cultures who embrace it and then to seek out other Muslims ON THEIR OWN TURF and talk to them, if they are willing to entertain my questions.
Vivian is one individual with her own perspective on things. The only person she can represent is HERSELF, not a race of people. [sigh] I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. Blackness is not monolithic; it is as rich and varied in nuances of experience as there are people who call themselves black. If you truly want to understand different classes of black people, or even just one class of them, then you need to go out and INTERACT with them IRL, not just on a message board where there’s only a handful of them. If you have done so IRL, great. I hope that you will continue to do so, but by interacting with folks from different cultural perspectives, I mean you should meet them ON THEIR OWN TURF, not expect them to meet you on yours, and yes that is an uncomfortable position to be in, but it’s one that black folks have traditionally found themselves in in their struggle to gain socio-economic and political parity with other Americans–just like Vivian is attempting to meet folks from cultural perspectives different from her own, if not on their own turf, then on turf that is far removed from her own cultural turf right now in this damn thread–and it would be the first step into understanding just a little bit where black folks in general are coming from.
I also find problematic your judgement of Vivian as racist based on one or two statements she made. How can you say that when you don’t know her very well? She stated her opinion on OJ, undoubtedly a controversial topic, and yes it is a generalization, but that demonstrates to me ignorance, not racism. Racism is where someone has the power to sociologically, psychologically, economically, or politically hold someone from a traditionally oppressed group back. I realize this isn’t GD where you can ask her for a cite to back up her assertion, but rather than jump to conclusions about how racist she and by extension all black folks may be, wouldn’t it make more sense to ask her to clarify her viewpoint? That would best serve the goal of eradicating ignorance IMHO.
I think that the problem that I’ve had all along with these “Ask the ___” threads is that they just tempt folks to take these individual perspectives as the final word on all things ___, when that’s not what they’re designed to do at all. If you come away from this thread thinking that Vivian is racist and by association all black folks are, then that will be a real shame.
Biggirl, you are right. How you behave is how a black person would behave. But it is not necessarily how black people act.
Are you denying that black Americans, as a very large, very diverse group have a different culture in the United States than white Americans, another very large, very diverse group?
It is not necessarily stereotyping (in the negative sense of the word) to point out that across large groups of people, there are cultural differences. Similarly, I’ve met many 6’ tall Chinese men (and one such woman) but across large samples, Chinese men are shorter than Norwegian men.
I’m not saying that vivian is correct that in interracial relationships the participants tend to act more like the race of the other than is normal. However, as a hypothesis it doesn’t seem particularly unreasonable either.
I find the denial of group cultural traits perplexing. My wife is Japanese, born and raised. However, because of her cultural exposures, she does not behave at all “Japanese”. Put her in a large group of other Japanese women and even someone unfamiliar with either American or Japanese cultures would be able to tell that she doesn’t behave like the group as a whole (though there may be other individuals who share certain behaviors).
I guess my point is that while I have no idea whether vivian is right or wrong (wrong in my experience), I don’t see a value judgment in what she said. She didn’t say there ia a way that whites and blacks should act, she said there is a way white and blacks do act; which is true at the group level, but not the individual.
My question for the black girl: What is the most overt act of racism you have experienced?
Just like I speak up when a white person says something completely biased, I spoke up here. Not that you were addressing me celestina, but what vivian said is no better than Wildest Bill’s moslem garbage.
And it’s dangerous. All the posters here who said they knew how black people “act” can and do come to conclusions about people they never met. The “you know how black folk are” syndrom.
So when black men are imprisoned and executed at an alarming rate its because everybody knows blacks are criminal-minded. No one notices the embedded bias/
When blacks default on mortgage loans at twice the rate of whites it’s because, well, you know how black folks are with bills and keeping a job. It has nothing to do with predatory lending practices.
When people say blacks are superior in sports, but below average in intelligence, it’s because that’s just the way black folk are. It’s in their genes.
Biggirl, I have no problem with you addressing inaccuracies or things that just get on your nerves. I too have problems with some of what vivian’s said, but I also realize that this is her thread, and it’s ultimately her opinion. Fine. I really don’t have the time or the energy to correct her on everything that gets my goat, and actually it’s kind of educational for me to see her perspective too, even when I’m wondering where she’s coming up with this “act black/act white” stuff. I think that what she says isn’t so much dangerous as it is people’s willingness to believe that she speaks for all black folks.
In different ways, we’re both addressing the same propensity for non-black folks and for some black folks to generalize and perpetuate stereotypes about the cultural group of black people based on a limited set of data/experiences. So I say more power to you! 
So it is better to deny the real cultural differences that do exist so as to avoid those who are incapable of noting such differences without assuming that all members of the group conform?
I am quite capable of noting that blacks as a group are more likely to engage in behavior A (say watching “Moesha”) than whites as a group without assuming that any individual black watches Moesha or any individual white doesn’t (I don’t even know if Moesha is on the air anymore, I just know that once upon a time it was the most-watched show among blacks but was something like 110 among all viewers).
I am quite capable of saying that statistically a black American is more likely to commit robbery than a white person without assuming that any individual black is a robber or that any individual white isn’t (I don’t know if the example is true, it is just an example). I am also capable of recognizing that the reasons for the difference are cultural and have nothing to do with the genetics of being black.
Just because I don’t like the fact that differences provide grist for the bigotry mill, I don’t think it serves any useful purpose to deny the differences.
I will admit, though, that the raw meat thing is strange. Different cultures produce different smells (smell plays an important role in my memories of the Vietnamese households I frequented as a child), but I can’t imagine that the differences between black and white Americans (or Canadians) are so great as to produce different body odors. We still, for the most part eat and cook the same foods, use the same toiletries, and have the same hygeine habits.
I know how black people are. I have observed black people in their native enviroment many many times. If you believe black and white people are the same, you need a reality check. When I hear any mention of “smoking blunts, and drinking 40s”, I envision a black man. Gasp! How stereotypical of me! The fact is, I have never been offered a blunt or a 40 by a white person. Why should I assume that white people have a propensity to smoke blunts and drink 40s? On the flip side, I have smoked hundreds of blunts with my black friends. I have never smoked a blunt with a white person… never. This is how stereotypes develope, and not all are wrong, just overblown. I have noticed that the majority of black people I have interacted with party differently, talk differently, eat different food, etc. Is this observation stereotypical? No. We are animals, and animals tend to act in typical ways. We are especially sensitive to our enviroment; therefore different cultures produce different people, who which, when coming from similar enviroments, may seem on the surface to be overly typical.
I am interested in the purported ‘wet dog’ smell of white people after coming in from the rain. No black people have ever commented on this. I assume that in this instance it is because I rarely talk to black people that are actually from Africa. Most are just as American as myself. Could it be that people from such drastically different cultures actually smell different? Can this be attributed to diet?
Funny. I have two black friends who do this regularly, and more white friends who do than I can count. I also have more white friends who don’t, and more black friends who don’t. Of course, you shouldn’t assume “that white people have a propensity to smoke blunts and drink 40s”. I sure don’t. But you also shouldn’t assume that black people have said propensity. Because there’s a hell of a lot of black people out there without that propensity.
You’re halfway right with this one. This is, indeed how stereotypes develop; People start to believe that a certain group of other people all (or even mostly) do the same thing. But the thing is that yes, stereotypes ARE WRONG. I just proved it, in this case, because in my experience, I know far more white people who “smoke blunts and drink 40’s” than black people. Your stereotype is invalid. As are all of them.
How about “acts in a manner consistent with what we can statistically prove is an action undertaken disproportionately by those members of the populace identifying themselves as __________, regardless of the fact that ethnicity is not the cause for this behavior”?
Sure, it’s a lot to write, but it can be shortened to “AIAMCWWWCSPIAAUDBTMOTPITA_,ROTFTEINTCFTB”
Me, when someone tells me I’m “acting white”–barring other evidence–I just take it on good faith that they meant AIAMCWWWCSPIAAUDBTMOTPITAW,ROTFTEINTCFTB.
[sub]Ok, I’ll shut up now[/sub]
I always assumed that the supposed “wet dog” smell was because of differences in hair. Short, kinky hair is not going to hold as much moisture as longer, striaght hair (No, I haven’t done any studies to back this up, but I’d bet it’s true). And the smell is coming from wet, “white peoples” hair. Again – just my take on it.
I have no idea whether or not it is actually valid, but I have heard the woman’s family mention it on more than one occasion. No, it didn’t bother me either.
Now, the “leave it to white people comment…” by vivian was pretty tacky…
And Biggirl – If some skinny white boy stepped up to you with “yo, yo baby – you be lookin fiiiine…” and was sporting baggy jeans and a backwards baseball cap and was overblown in diamond rings, necklaces, and earrings and had gold teeth-- besides the fact that you’re probably going to think he’s an idiot, are you honestly going to not say, or at least think, “That boy thinks he is black” ?
And, on the flip side of that, have you ever heard Tony Gwynn (San Diego baseball player) speak? He sounds exactly what Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle sound like when they are making fun of white people with the nasally , Opie Taylor style of speaking “Well, Golly, I just don’t know about that…”
I’m not saying that in Tony Gwynn’s case that he isn’t black, nor am I saying that kid in the first example isn’t white. Was it ob who said it above? It’s all the culture you put yourself in and present yourself with.
Puhleese, I’m white and had a thing for Asian women for a long time. I have and still do catch tons of thinly veiled racist crap from white women. [end hijack]
Spike Lee’s She’s Gotta Have It. What did you think of the film? I dnow it’s old and maybe with AIDS awareness it’s an outdated stereotype. What about the stereotype the film protrays of the one particular black woman doing every guy around? What sort of percentage of the black female community is indiscriminately promiscuous?
Good Morning Dopers!
since i left last night i see people have been mighty damn pissed. listen, for those of you who aren’t a minority and have never experienced racism, please understand that i am simply posting answers to your questions. if you don’t like them…tough. i can’t even begin to describe the shit i’ve been through as a Black woman. For example, i happen to have red curly extensions in my hair (think Scary Spice…what’s so scary about her anyways???) i’m in the elevator coming in this morning, i’m dressed very business like…2 white women get into the elevator and start going on about how much they love my hair. here’s the kicker, one of the ladies says to me “can i touch it?”. Am i a dog or a stuffed animal or something??? lucky for her, i had reached my floor and stauntered out. if the same people who want to call me a racist can explain why i should have to put up with that shit friggin’ every day, then please, explain away. if i am a racist, fine…doesn’t bother me. i given tons of reason to be…now, to the people who have actual interesting questions…
That is in fact true…as far as i can tell. As you may know, Black people originate from a very warm climate, so they (most) do not like the cold.We’re not made for it, hence the dark skin. most of us don’t tan or get burned. From my experiences, everytime i come to work, go to someone’s house or even get on a damn bus, the air conditioning is on!!! why!!!
Thanks for the great welcome! I’ll try my best to answer all the questions as honestly as i can.
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this will answer #1 and #6
i have been profiled by the police. the funny thing is, it happens here alot in Toronto Canada (pop. 3 million). But i’ve never been made to feel less than human…except when my sisters and i made a trip to New Jersey. We were lost and had pulled over to the side of road to ask a guy on the street directions. I swear to God, undercover, uniform, SWAT came out of nowhere. Yelling at us, telling us to get out of the car…it looked like a scene out of COPS. Visiting the States always makes me VERY conscious of my skin colour. In Canada, everything is more subtle. Probably because we are more diverse than the States. -
Negro…nooooooooo…same with ‘colored’. I don’t mind being called Black and i think most do. African American/Canadian sounds too PC to me.
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i have mostly black friends, i have more white accquaintances (sp?). why? probably because i have alot more in common with them. plus, i’ve been told, by a white woman, that most are ‘scared’ of black women…
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i didn’t mean Bill Cosby…I think Wayne Brady is buffonish. Same with Chris Tucker and the Wayans bros. i like people who are actaully funny. i would compare them to Tom Green…i think he dumb.
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boondocks i’ve read, i like it. jump start, i’ve never heard of. give me a link and i’ll take a look.
hope that answered your questions!