Eh, the editorial staff of Marvel and fandom in general have all decided to ignore what Byrne did to Spidey. I can forget this too.
Legion of Superheroes question. I remember a character called Ultraboy (Ultralad?), who had a magenta suit with a sort of green bird on his chest. He was always helping out Superboy and such. Ultraboy seemed to be in every issue, but I could never figure out what his powers were supposed to be. What was his story, and what was he supposed to be able to do?
I forget exactly what Ultraboy’s origin story was, but based on a survey of my dad’s old collection, I think he had all the same powers as say, Superboy or Mon-El/Valor, plus (I think I remember) the ability to alter his size. The catch: he could only use one power at a time. He could be invulnerable, but not ultra-strong; use a vision power, but not fly at the same time. Of course, the good 'ol flight ring made sure he almost never flew under his own steam.
The two teams were chosen by the Collector and a mysterious robed figure who turns out to be Death. The Collector’s heroes won 3 of the four pieces of the mystic cantalope (well, whatever that thing was).
The result of the Collector winning the bet was that Death had to release his brother, at the price of his own life. (Note that I may have the Collector and the brother backwards. Someone else may have better access to the books, or a better memory than I, to clear that up.)
Thinking about it a bit, the brother might have been The Gamesman, which would make The Collector the dead brother after all. Anyone?
I seem to think that that particular character turned up in an issue or two of the X-Men, when they were presumed dead by the world at large, and living in the Outback. He may have been related to the old Aborigine teleporter, whose services they used from time to time. Or maybe I’m just confusing the two.
The Irish superheroine (Shamrock?) either had an appearance previous to CoC, or did in fact turn up again later. Possibly in the Wolverine vehicle Marvel Presents, as a one or two part story.
Now, I can’t recall that positively, but I do recall that the last panel of her “fight”, where she steals the mystic cantelope slice from Captain America’s hands, was miscolored. Part of her entirely green costume was colored yellow. Her left leg, I think. Why does my mind retain this crap? 
Sabbra, the Israeli superheroine also had at least one other appearance, in an issue of The Incredible Hulk, though I can’t remember for sure if that predated CoC or not, either.
Gee, all these positive answers that I’m kinda sure of, that I read somewhere. I seem to be suffering from Fenrisitus. 
Almost exactly dead on!
He didn’t have the power to alter his size and each of his individual powers was a little better than Superboy’s (His “penatra-vision” could see through lead, his invulnerability was slightly better, etc)
And his origin was one of the < cough > more imaginative (aka Sillier) Legion origins.
Does it help if I tell you his real name is Jo Nah? (Jonah. geddit?)
He was swallowed by a radioactive space-whale and got super-powers as a result.
No. Really.
I’m serious.
I’m not making this up, you know.
Skeezix: I barely recall the Contest of Champions, but I think it was the Gamemaster playing Death for the life of the Collector.
And I think Sabra’s shown up a couple of times, following Contest of Champions: her Hulk appearance certainly was.
(Fenrisitis…hee! At last! Fame!!! )
Fenris
Or your derby. Whatever.
Fascinating stuff, y’all. So lemme ask my questions.
When & why did Dave Sim go insane?
Is Dark Horse doing anything interesting?
Questions as a lapsed Bat-fan:
Howdja like that sequel to “Long Halloween”? (Dark…Victory? Vengeance?) I loved LH, since it continued the Year One story, and I’ll pick up the DV book once I scrape up the cash. Jeph Loeb & Tim Sale are an excellent team, IMHO. I saw Loeb’s name in the credits for “Birds of Prey” as ‘consultant’, but why he couldn’t consult them some better dialog is a mystery.
Anyone read that big Wonder Woman book that has her going up against Batman? I’d heard it was very good…
Is the “Legends of the Dark Knight” still a strong title? I always enjoyed the short story arcs with the unconventional stories and even more unconventional artwork.
Can you give me a short synopsis of where this new Batgirl came from? Why does she have the eye holes in her mask stitched up?
Are any of the Cataclysm/Contagion/No Man’s Land collections worth the cover price?
I’m quite excited about the new Daredevil movie, and I’m wondering if picking up the collected Frank Miller stories is worthwhile?
Now a Poll: What’s your favorite Elseworlds book?
I have 2: Gotham by Gaslight, which, IIRC was the first story with the Elseworlds title.
And I’m a huge fan of the “Speeding Bullets” story, wherein the spaceship carrying baby Kal-El is found not by the Kents, but by Thomas & Martha Wayne. Such a cool idea, I almost wish they’d film it.
Finally, one note about the general suckitude of corporate crossovers: I think the DC/Dark Horse crossovers might prove an exception. Batman vs. Predator was a great story (I haven’t read BvP II, and is there a III?). I even enjoyed the Aliens vs. Superman story. But the best by far was the Joker/Mask story - a real hoot.
PS: Have there been any Dark Horse/Marvel crossovers?
Posted by Tyger
Yes. I particularly enjoy Sock Monkey by Tony Millionaire. He writes children’s books the way I wish they were written when I was younger. All of these little stuffed animals talking in aristocratic voices. Great stuff.
It was indeed Dark Victory, and it was OK, but I thought that Long Halloween was much better. It’s hard to go wrong with Loeb and Sale. I enjoyed their “Superman for all Seasons”, but I am not that crazy about “Spiderman: Blue” (I’m such a DC whore…it’s really sad).
Yes, I read Hiketeia (sp?), and I enjoyed it. It was an interesting story, and I liked the characterization of Wonder Woman, which sadly tends to change depending on who is writing her. I thought that Eric Luke nailed the character, but Phil Jiminez ruined her. Phil can draw, but he can’t write (my opinion, of course).
To be honest, I’m not sure. I really loved the title when it first came out, with the five issue story arcs by some amazing writers. However, I think it kind of started falling apart for me in the forties-fifties, and I frankly gave up on the book. I’d say it’s better than the current Detective Comics, but then…what isn’t.
Not really, I haven’t been following Batman since it started sucking (again, my opinion).
Because the artist thinks it looks cool? Really, I don’t know.
In my opinion? NO. I saw all of these events as vain attempts by DC to cash in on Batman’s popularity. I don’t like big events like this, since most of them don’t pan out. I picked all of them up, but I was sorry I did.
Well, I enjoyed his Man Without Fear books, but I haven’t read anything else he has done with Daredevil.
Probably JLA: The Nail, good writing and amazing artwork.
Psycho Pirate 
They’re coming out with a new line, Rocket Comics, which has some exciting names attached (Stuart Moore, Tom Peyer, Jim Kreuger). It’s good news – for the last couple years, it looked like DH had all but given up the ghost as far as original work was concerned.
**
She was an orphan raised by assassin David Cain to be the best assassin in the world. To that end, he trained her so her mind’s language processors can’t understand words but instead read body language. This makes her a fantastic fighter (better than Batman, when she puts her mind to it). However, she can’t talk. (By now she’s learned, a little.) She doesn’t have a name, really, but people call her Cassandra. (Cassie Cain – get it?)
Her eye holes aren’t stitched up, her mouth is. 'Cuz she can’t talk. During the NML, when Batman was out of Gotham, someone (I’m not going to spoil who in case you decide to read the NML TPB’s) dressed up in a female version of the Bat costume to keep order in the streets. When Batman came back, that person gave up the costume, which went to Cassie, who sewed up the mouth because she didn’t need it open.
The current Batgirl, BTW, was a just masterful title, although I understand that the creative team leaves after the next issue. There are two TPB’s of the series, which I recommend to anyone.
I’ve only read the NML volumes. I think they’re pretty good and there are some stories which are great. If you’re a fan of superhero comics in general (which I pretty much am not), I’d definitely say they were worth the scratch.
–Cliffy
That’s the way it was SUPPOSED to be but it didn’t really work out that way.
It was the GameMaster vs Death, and their prospective teams were supposed to gather the most of 4 parts of that golden globe award. They claimed that Gamemaster won 3-1, but in actuality, Shamrock was on Death’s team and since she collected one of the pieces, the score was really 2-2. In other words, the author and editorial staff screwed up big time.
They tried to correct that in a 2-part Avengers and West Coast Avengers crossover annual, where they had to fight heroes/villains from Death’s realm, but it just confused things more.
While it was a fun read (and Marvel’s first mini-series), it’s best to not try to make sense of it.
Gotta go with Kingdom Come on that one. Love Mark Waid and love Alex Ross. Yes the story had been done before by the inimitable Mark Gruenwald in Squadron Supreme, but the feel was totally different.
On a side note, I’m actually becoming a huge fan of Greg Horn’s painting (great cheesecake) but I don’t know if he could pull off an entire book. has he ever done it before?
But is Kingdom Come an Elseworlds tale? There is some debate on this issue, especially since The Kingdom mini-series established Hypertime.
If we count Kingdom Come as an Elseworlds tale, I would have to choose it for my favorite as well. If not, I’m sticking with The Nail.
Psycho Pirate
I’d like to know what happens before the art gets completed, IE what goes on in the planning stages. There’s probably more than just the writer sends the artist the script. Do some writers send just text, with a description of what the scenery looks like? Do some send their own rough sketches to gie the artist a guide? Does the editor get his hands on the script first, say “We need more of this, we need less of that” and essentially rewrite it?
I picked up this Marvel series a few years ago called Darkhold. It seemed to have a good enough premise. Three more or less mundane characters have their lives tied to the Darkhold and spend the series trying to solve its mysteries. It only lasted about 12 or so issues, and along the way it looked like Marvel did their best to put in whatever gimmick or fix they could think of to get people to buy the book. This was during the period when Spawn was doing so well that Marvel lined up a bunch of flashy hellfire and brimstone imitators.
One of the characters started out as a detective, but more the desk jockey type. Soft body but hardened outlook. They eventually turned him into a steroid muscle monster with guns blazing. They started bringing in guest stars and crossovers, like the Punisher, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange etc and relied on them so much, the original characters pretty much got buried into obscurity. The poor writer did the best he could given the circumstances, but it seemed to me the series had the heaviest editing hand I had ever seen in any comic. They used any short term gimmick they could think of to get the comic to sell, but never considered consistency.
This sparks a question: What potentially interesting storylines or concepts were gutted and/or aborted because the creator left the company under less-than-pleasant circumstances and someone else had to tie up the loose ends? I can think of a few:
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Rick Veitch/Swamp Thing. Left in the middle of his backwards-time-traveling story because DC was hesitant about his use of Jesus.
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The Hobgoblin mess. Was it Roger Stern? Someone got fired or took off before they disclosed who the Hobgoblin was supposed to be, so the remaining writers had to make an educated guess.
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Waid/Morrison/Hypertime. A lot of people hated it, but I thought it had potential, plus I love alternate universe stories. IIRC, it hasn’t been used since Morrison left JLA a few years ago.
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I’m pretty sure Byrne has done this a few times. He did it in FF, leaving the Thing all mutated (but I don’t know if I’d classify that as potentially interesting)
Any others?
I stopped reading at “Reads.” I don’t know if he was insane yet, but he was certainly dull.
Mostly licensed books, like the Star Wars/Marvel reprints, which I am dearly loving (though I realize that without the nostalgia factor, they could be described as “sucky”). Also, Frank Miller occasionally puts out some Sin City series, which vary in quality, but which I mostly like.
I think I’m one of the few people who can’t stand Jeph Loeb. I’ve never liked anything he’s written. I read LH and found it a regurgition of Year One, plus it had a “catch” I spotted a mile away. Then I read an issue of Daredevil: Yellow and found it a regurgitation of Man Without Fear. Blecch!
Absolutely! Don’t forget “Born Again,” which for my money is the best story Miller’s ever written. And for a complete contrast, pick up the Essential Daredevil to see when he was a swashbuckling wisecracker, not an angry, guilt-ridden mope (which I admit was Miller’s doing).
Since the Golden Age is now considered Elseworlds I’ll pick that, but JSA: The Liberty File would be my second choice.
Interesting question. It’s quite variable; there are two basic ways a script gets written. The first, and more popular, is full script. The author does a panel-by-panel script formatted like a screenplay, but in some cases with even more detail about scenery, props, angles of certain “shots,” character reactions, etc. Then, it’s given to the artist to draw. The other main type is “Marvel style,” called this because it was developed by necessity at Marvel during the 50’s and 60’s when Stan Lee was the primary writer and had to crank out more than an issue every day. In this style, the writer gives a general plot of maybe only a few pages and it is up to the artist to decide exactly what happens, as well as issues of pacing or setting. Once the art is done (under either method), it goes back to the writer to write the actual words that appear; if the writer has worked in full script, then this is usually a matter of tweaking. Some times someone other than the original author, or “plotter,” ends up doing the scripting.
–Cliffy
This thread is addictive. Thanks to all the experts giving answers!
Two more questions I’ve thought of:
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Do Captain Carrot (and his Amazing Zoo Crew) still exist? Did the Crisis or Zero Hour or something else wipe them out of continuity, or are they still floating around out there somewhere?
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I always kind of dug Zatanna, despite reading very few stories with her in them – I was a Marvelite at heart. (Maybe I just have a thing for brunettes, I don’t know.) Anyway: were there any practical limits to her power, other than her having to speak commands backwards? And what’s she up to these days? Last I saw her was in Gaiman’s Books of Magic miniseries.
Not really an answer to your question, 'cause I don’t know what the limits are on her powers. But just to let you know - the lady in the fishnet stockings has either a one-shot or a limited series coming out soon (I forget which). Mmmmmm…Zatanna.
Captain Carrot and the Zoo Crew may still exist…as a cartoon series or comic book within the DC universe. Now and then I’ve seen somebody with a Captain Carrot phone, much like a Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny or Superman phone.
Zatanna pops up now and then. Most recently in JLA during the Obsidian Age Saga. She’ll have a short Vertigo series coming out in the next couple of months.
**
Despite getting the label “Earth C”, they were considered an alternate dimension rather than a parallel world (There is no Earth C analog of Superman and who’s the Earth 2 analog of Yankee Poodle) so presumably they weren’t affected by the Crisis but no, I don’t think that they’ve shown up at all after the Oz/Wonderland War.
**
- Every attempt to really limit her power (Conway, hack that he was) couldn’t cope with her in the JLA so he depowered her and made her an elementalist. It was ignored.
There was a craptacular (seriously: one of the worst attempts at character butchery ever) mini-series where the idiot writer (or editor) said that speaking backwards was chauvanistic and limited her female “I am womyn, hear me roar” power: so they made her a bitchy punk-rocker looking chick with a huge magic staff so that she wouldn’t be dependant on patriarchial, male-dominated dead-white-male-magic :rolleyes: (and having her magic be dependant on a huge staff with a knob on the end enhances her feminine side how, exactly? :rolleyes) Other than a crossover in Spectre, it was completely ignored too. Either Gaiman or Moore said words to the effect of “Why use a character if you’re going to change everything good and unique and likable about her?” and she just went back to being the real Zatanna again and the punk-Zatanna was relegated to the Mopee bin.
She does have some upper limit but I think it’s like a supply of magic: she can do one huge bit of magic or a lot of smaller stunts but eventually has to recharge. She can’t take on the Spectre, for instance.
Anyway, the real Zatanna is getting a miniseries due out in a couple of months and it’s the real Zatanna: fishnets, top hat and sdrawkcab talk.
And I wrote a letter to DC, asking them to consider a “Zatanna Quest” trade paperback with the original…um…6(?) Zatanna stories where she’s searching for Zatara (one of the few meta-plots DC had in the '60s). (Hawkman #4, Atom #19(?), Green Lantern #42, an Elongated Man story in the back of Detective, a Batman story in Detective (retconned in—she turned out to be a witch that fought Batman-- so that Batman, hot at the time from the Adam West TV show could be in the finale) and JLA 51. Sadly, no response as yet.
I love the real Zatanna too!
Fenris
I suppose so, especially with good ol’ Hypertime.
DC has dealt with Zatanna’s powers in a few different books. The current story is that she doesn’t have to say the words backwards, but it helps her to focus her mind. I’m sure that her powers have limits (as Fenris pointed out: taking on the Spectre would be a baaad idea), but I don’t remember any issues where those limits were explored