No. It triggering homicidal ideation is pretty normal, though.
Absolutely. If you don’t truly attach, you wind up sitting there in an echo chamber by yourself thinking “This is all there is? Well, that sucks.”
It’s not attachment itself that’s a bad thing, it’s being attached to negative things, or clinging to attachments that are no longer good for us. There’s a great deal of beauty and joy in clinging fiercely to something that’s good and true and right that you miss out on by never attaching deeply. There’s a great deal of peace in letting go of something whose time has passed, or was never good to start with, and clinging fiercely to such things only brings pain and unhappiness. The secret is learning to see when things are good and true and right, and when they’re bad or their time is done.
Thanks for launching this thread…I have a few questions for you:
-is it possible to be depressed “intellectually”-that is, you weigh everything, and it looks bleak?
-I have wonderd about my “peak moments”-times when I was very happy-is it possible (IYO) to duplicate those situations?
That said, congratulations-life is so much better when you are happy.
It is heartbreaking, but a Buddhist usually doesn’t expect things to get better. Or worse. All a person can do is just experience the moment, neither anticipating or dreading the next . Hope carries with it desire, and desire is the root of suffering.
Buddhism is both liberating and depressing.
I think I’m coming to terms with depression in the same way that other people come in terms with physical handicaps. It is heartbreaking to consider that people will never be cured from diabetes or cancer or tuberculosis, and yet people with these diseases can still experience happy times and appreciate the goodness in life. A person with depression (both clinical and non-clinical) can operate in this same fashion. Maybe perpetual happiness is too lofty a goal, but contentment is within reach. Maybe instead of trying to love themselves, they can just strive to tolerate themselves. I don’t find this kind of “settling” to be tragic or heartbreaking. I just think it’s realistic way of approaching an intractable problem.
Well put. Depression isn’t about being sad because your dog died. It’s a physical condition that you may or may not be able to treat. In the most severe form it may be something that destroys the quality of life. But plenty of people with varying degrees of clinical depression find a satisfactory quality of life anyway, just as do people with other physical problems.
It may be heartbreaking, but it’s just the truth that some people cannot be ‘‘cured’’ of depression. I have done almost every conceivable therapy (CBT, cognitive therapy, psychodynamic therapy, exposure therapy, EMDR etc.) including dropping $10k to have someone shoot electromagnetic pulses into my left prefrontal cortex. I have tried over 15 different medications. I have had 9 therapists and due to a terrifying bout of suicidal ideation last night I’m about to seek out my tenth. I am, without a doubt, the most proactive person I have EVER met regarding my mental health.
I’m never getting ‘‘out’’ of this. I have two choices: I can rail against the universe for afflicting me with this disease and suffer even more, or I can accept that this is my reality and continue to live my life the best way I know how.
Yeah, the intellectual thing was probably part of it-I felt like a pawn in a random universe, toyed with by uncaring yet unconscious forces.
I’m a bit impatient with “peak” experiences-I much prefer to cultivate more or less permanent plateaus. Peaks usually don’t “stick”, while a plateau is a new level from which you won’t come back down.
That is most certainly true, and on another forum I was arguing just that point today (in a different context); on the other hand, when people can’t get themselves unstuck, that is indeed tragic, non-attachment, hope, or whatever.
Just throwing this out there, not meaning to be presumptuous, but have you ever considered not being proactive? I don’t mean being passive and helpless, per se, but instead of beating yourself up in a futile battering ram fight with your depression, try relaxing your center instead, so to speak. All that tension is probably making things worse. But again if I am overstepping my bounds (and perhaps you’ve already tried something like that) forgive me.
I guess I was sort of talking about that with my spiel about accepting depression as a part of my life. I seem to do better when I stop railing against it and focus on other things.
I was diagnosed as bipolar. When I was young, I was unnaturally happy and motivated. I succeded at everything I ever attempted. I also got into a shit-ton of trouble.
Fast forward to my 40s. Crippling depression. The only reason I left the house was because I had kids to raise. Considering all the shit I’ve been through, I’m really sitting pretty. My kids are great, I have a nice house, I dont have money problems, and I have a good marriage of 27 years.
At 50, I can say I’m really happy. I have no idea why. Some of it has to do with getting one knee replaced and the other one repaired, so I’m not in constant pain anymore. I also quit making other people rich on my hard work.
I’m not going to question why I feel better, and I’m not anticipating a relapse. I get down sometimes. I think everyone does, but I’m not sure because I dont have a reference of whats normal.
If you are asking me, I have been off meds for about 6 years, with the exception of seroquel twice when hypomania was starting to veer me into risk taking behavior.
The manic part of the disorder for the most part left me when I was in my late 30s. It only returned after administering cpr, and once when I found myself in a fight.
OK, now let me tell you my story. I am 31 and have felt ‘different’ for as long as i can remember, it’s very weird but its almost as if I don’t belong here, I just don’t know how best to explain it. Recently I have been all the more confused as I really don’t know who I am (not literally of course) after I peel away all these societal labels (Accountant, Husband, Son, Friend, etc).
Very often when I have a couple of drinks with my wife and/or friends and I go to the bathroom I find myself staring at the mirror and I ask myself 'who is that staring back?'I almost don’t recognize myself. It’s like… the deeper I look the more enveloped I become with the question ‘who am I really?’
I’m not happy at work cos my boss is a dick and I feel he respects others more than he respects me, my staff are mostly OK but they often don’t respect either my decisions or my authority. I shy away from confrontations and I take criticisms badly. I know that to do so gives away my power but I can’t help but feeling like shit. I often think people may be talking about me behind my back and I try to please everyone even if that sometimes means taking the hit myself.
I also try to be too nice to some people and either give excuses for myself, give too many explanations when these are not required and try to (overly) use humour to diffuse potentially difficult situations. I often feel my job is the problem as ‘things would be better if I asked for a transfer’ but I know deep down this isn’t true as 1. there are dicks wherever you go and 2. the problem is with my attitude.
The only persons I can truly be myself with are with my wife or my 2 closest friends.
John, thanks so much for posting this. I wasn’t reading the Dope when you made the OP, so I’m glad I found this. Funny, I had my big turnaround about two months after you did. But the last six months or so have been the best.
CuriouslyCinnamon, I have plenty of ideas, but my first one is… get a new job!
Don’t poo poo the idea of changing jobs! You spend a third of your life there. I don’t care how enightened you become, an asshole boss is still an asshole boss.
As for finding out who you really are, there’s a lot to discuss. But the short answer is that the true you is the eternal detached observer. The trick is to quiet your mind enough to see that. There are some meditation exercises that can help to facilitate that.
