If nothing else, I learned a thing today. So thank you for that. Glad to hear it is working well for you.
It’s not woo. When I did it years ago, a lot of people thought that - more proof now to support how it helps.
I hope it works for you too!
Close. Step 4 happens at the beginning of the process, not in the middle of it. And you don’t focus on the thought you’d like to have throughout the process. It is more or less free association, but the free association tends to be directly related to trauma stuff. I don’t know what open monitoring meditation is (mindfulness meditation?) but I’ve done zazen and mantra meditation and it’s not that kind of vibe. It does feel somewhat like an altered state of consciousness, but it’s not like anything I’ve done before. It feels really… weird.
Wow, I admire you Spice Weasel! You’ve been through crap l can’t imagine, and I’ve been through crap I wouldn’t wish on my worst enemy. 
You posted a few years back that you were going to do this, no?
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I try not to play the ‘‘harder than you’ve had it’’ game because it inevitably bites you on the ass. The wonderful, horrible thing about life is that it can always be worse, and usually is, for someone other than me. I’ve never been through a gut-wrenching breakup, lost a spouse, battled cancer, been forced into a concentration camp, etc. etc. I’ve heard child abuse stories that curl my toes and seen conditions I can’t fathom living in. My ultimate conclusion is that people can bitch all they want, whether it’s about the greatest loss they’ve ever faced or their broken nail, as long as they don’t use it as an excuse to treat others badly.
To be honest, I often struggle with shame for how much this stuff still affects me sometimes, given all the bullshit others have to deal with. Whatever I suffered in childhood, my adult life has been largely full of privilege and opportunity that many would love to have. I got basically the best education available in this country, was free to choose pretty much whatever I wanted to do with my career, and because of my spouse’s career I can get away with working part-time and working on my dream of becoming a published author. That’s not even getting into how great my husband is and the fact I met the love of my life at age 19. So I’m kind of embarrassed to struggle in the middle of such an objectively easy life. It makes me feel like a very weak person. Therapists, and others, often say that I am strong, and I am not being falsely modest when I say I find that really hard to swallow. When I was growing up, I was told pretty routinely that I was a giant, selfish, immature, whiny brat, and I was mocked for crying, and it was horrible, but not the worst thing that ever happened to anyone. I dunno. I am naturally a very emotional person and it was drilled into me that emotions = weakness and it’s a difficult dissonance to carry.
There are some people, even on this board, who have discomfort and even contempt with my openness and my emotionality and I can feel it, and some part of me is ashamed, but I honestly don’t know any other way to be. I think it’s mostly a good thing but that same me-ness is why I really struggle to hold down jobs with certain interpersonal dynamics and why a single triggered emotion can throw off my entire day. That sure feels like weakness to me. But if I can be said to be strong in any way, it is in my love. I am damned good at loving other people.
Part of what we’re working on in EMDR is getting through my shame, I’m not sure it serves any positive outcome. You’d think with all this guilt I have, I would at least have been raised Catholic or something.
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You posted a few years back that you were going to do this, no?
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Maybe? It’s been on my radar for a while, and I tried it several years back for one or two sessions but it never got off the ground. Part of the issue is I’m not really comfortable doing any trauma work like this unless I’ve achieved some degree of long-term mental stability, and the last few years have been… bumpy.
Thank you for sharing your experience with us!
I’m curious about whether the eye movements have any physical effect. Do you get dizzy, nauseous, sleepy, etc? Does it give you a headache?
Nothing too major, but it is a little wearing on the eyes during the cycles. I think the cycles are short enough that it doesn’t seem to cause any long-term fatigue.
What I mean is that he didn’t think the additions to the therapy had any merit, and that you were better off just using the direct version. Essentially, he didn’t believe the actual eye movements were therapeutic.
Of course, (at that time at least), I did not have PTSD, so the discussion was academic. It was just part of him establishing a rapport with me early on. He always took a few minutes to set that up unless I was in crisis mode. I’m sure you know that connection is important to establish for good outcomes.
I may not even be remembering it entirely correctly. I do know that there is something about using eye movements and memory that is pretty well debunked: the idea that you look in certain directions when you are remembering certain things. This has been shown not to be predictive.
And now to shut up, since I can’t think of any questions.
I’m honestly not sure the extent to which studies have been conducted controlling for the eye-movement component, all I know is, experientially, it’s way different than prolonged exposure, meditation, or anything else I’ve experienced. Also, it’s not just eye movement, but bilateral stimulation, which could mean sound or hand buzzers. I don’t know why it works, but if it’s any consolation, most researchers don’t know why most therapies work. It’s a lot harder to test for theory than efficacy.
I appreciate your input, FWIW.
Thankfully, it’s not a competition, pain is pain. So proud of you for continuing to fight - lots of hugs. I hated the treatment, but it worked.
What is it you hated about it?
I’m really curious whether my experience is different or similar to others.
I have hated it each time I’ve needed treatment for mental health issues. Although I completely understand logically that it is not true - it has always felt like a weakness.
This was helpful, it gave me a direction. Thank you.
I made a little sign, something borrowed from back the 90s, a cartoon frowny woman with an X over her. It says at the bottom “No Judging.” It’s meant to be a reflection of your own self, so it’s there for me, my boss, and everyone else who is looking at themselves and being critical. Sometimes it is good to be reflective and take a hard look at a problem, but other times we just have a bad case of the I Shoulds and it serves no good purpose.
I flick the sign at my boss all the time because she’s the worst I Should-er I’ve ever seen, and she runs the place.
I should also add, this critical view is only on myself. I have never thought of anyone else as weak.
That’s the mindset that is really starting to change though.
As people have said, if you break your arm would you feel guilty going to the hospital and having it looked after? Of course not. I get where you’re coming from, but society as a whole really is getting much better at all of this.
Take care.
I’ve struggled with it at times, too. I’m not ashamed of the depression, but I am sometimes ashamed of the being hung up on trauma of my past, especially as it can be so emotionally disruptive.
Today’s session was really positive. I’m starting to see a shift in my thinking on a lot of things. As I mentioned before, I get emotional at times when people post jerky things about women on the Dope, but I noticed this Pit thread barely triggered a reaction when it popped up, beyond, ‘‘ho hum’’ and I’m of course amused now that it has evolved into a serious conversation about violence against both men and women with little regard paid to the inflammatory nature of the OP. There’s also a certain poster on this board with some ideas I find repugnant and which I wrestled with emotionally for months – I find my attitude toward him has changed significantly. I’m just not feeling as personally threatened as I used to by other people’s ignorance.
The interesting thing about EMDR to me is that all of this comes from your own insight. So the particular insights I glean are going to be very different than the next person’s. Today it was about embracing the very large part of myself that is open to different perspectives without feeling guilty about or insecure about my own point of view. It was also recognizing that my whole story about my Mom is essentially a made-up narrative, as we always make up narratives about our lives to understand them. Seeing her as this weak, lost person is really a narrative, not an unassailable fact. So I realized I can’t name her own experience for her, either, only mine, and only what’s best for me. Recognizing that has enabled me to begin to let go of the idea that I somehow betrayed her by ‘‘leaving her behind.’’ It gives some distance from the belief that she was a victim I failed to protect.
I came up with this all on my own in the space of about ten minutes. It is really weird how your brain just sort of blurts out the solution.
That’s interesting. I have to look at how to deal with my mother as well. While she was not the abusive one, she wasn’t able to protect herself and the kids. It’s good to remember that we really can’t know exactly what is happening with others.
I hope that this therapy goes well. Unfortunately, it looks like this isn’t available here in Taiwan for English speakers.
Probably my worst week yet in terms of side-effects. I broke down sobbing twice yesterday, first from leaving my purse in my husband’s car and being stranded at home on a day when I had several errands planned, including a critical doc appointment; second from the Steven Universe cartoon. I can’t sleep worth shit due to nightmares and anxiety. I have a possibly unrelated headache going on 16 hours now. I called in sick today.
I’m still holding up generally okay overall. Not really anything I would call severe depression, just feeling shitty both physically and emotionally. I haven’t gotten out of bed yet, but I’m going to shower and treat myself to a meal out. Like, hey, you, here’s some yummy food for making it through the week.
This two steps forward, one step back sort of thing is fairly typical for mental health treatment. I see it as a temporary challenge.
Oh, we’re getting into the deep shit now.
My regular (non-EMDR therapist) once told me she thinks I fixate on my mother because I don’t want to deal with the sexual abuse. At the time I discounted the theory at least in part because my mother is just as wrapped up in that due to her denial and allowing it to happen. But I’ve found myself increasingly more resistant to dealing with any aspect of that, the nightmares have gotten worse, and today I teared up with anxiety just thinking about it.
Today was the toughest thus far. It’s like I’ve had this story in my head that seems too awful to be true, and even though it’s my story, there’s this part of me that’s hoping I’m just delusional or exaggerating the truth of what happened. But then I have these rare moments, and today was one, where the pieces fit together and I can see the whole picture and it just scares the shit out of me.
I make much of the fact that I was raised by a mentally ill mother but usually leave out the part about also being raised by a sociopath. People throw that word around all the time, but I had the real deal, I worshiped the ground he walked on and I utterly depended on him for protection from my mother and he used it all to abuse me. I had forgotten how hard he came down on me in front of my mother, every bit as strict, telling me I had no rights, because I was a child, that it didn’t matter how I felt, because I was a child. But then as soon as her back was turned, he talked about how cruel she was to me and how his mother was just the same and basically told me it was all a show he was putting on to protect me, that she would kill herself if she knew about our relationship, etc. In retrospect, he worked very hard to drive a wedge between us.
And my mother has stuck to this narrative of being an unwitting victim of it all, but I have too much evidence that she knew. He told her he was going to get her committed so he could have me to himself. When I was… I thought fifteen or sixteen. I was standing right there when he called social services and asked them if he could get custody of me. He told me I would be more like a wife when that happened. I was terrified of what my mother might do to me, but I was also terrified of living alone with him. It’s great. He acted so concerned on my behalf, making the call, getting all emotional about how he was going to stage this family intervention on my behalf, and heavily implying that i would be some kind of mistress instead of his kid, and then he went home and did jack shit about it. Acted like the whole thing never happened, later lied to her face about ever making that phone call.
I told my EMDR therapist, I don’t even know how I would begin to deal with his abuse in any sort of meaningful way. I worshipped the ground he walked on at the time, I trusted him, I believed he was one of the few allies I had, and he was acting out of pure manipulation so he could more easily molest me. And I felt guilty at the thought of rejecting him because he was giving me so much. He set that up. Intentionally. What do you do with that? I have no idea. I’m not angry. I’m not sad. I’m just afraid and confused. It’s like I’m emotionally stuck in that same place I was at 11, or 13, or 16 trying to make sense of it all. There is no sense to be made.
So that was EMDR today, and oddly enough, I felt a lot better afterward.
But now I can’t sleep. So it goes.