Keep in mind, though, that your chances of being in a hostile area are way higher in the Army Reserves. If you join the Naval or Air Force Reserves, the chances are pretty slim if you’re not a flyer. And I’m not sure what you mean by “dicey” since what you described is a well-known part of being a Reservist.
I ran into a couple guys when I wasvisiting Germany a few years back. They did their hitch in the Marines, and figured they’d join the reserves so they could keep in shape, go out and fight floods, that sort of thing.
They said they’ve been deployed more when they were in the Reserves than when they were active.
I also know of an Air Force reserve commander who volunteered his entire squadron for a year long stint in Afghanistan.
If you’re in the Reserves, you WILL be called up.
Promises, promises.
All right, that’s it- go get me something to beat you with!
You guys didn’t think I would stay out of this, did you? Well, I’m not.
Pottery Accumulator, I am currently an active duty Coast Guard Chief Boatswain Mate (E-7). A few points:
The Coast Guard is not the law enforcement branch of the DOTrans. It is an armed service which operates under that Department. Law enforcement is one of many responsiblities we have. Military readiness and warfare are another, albeit a smaller one. To operate under DOD would interfere with our LE mission.
As far as our not being military in any conventional sense of the word, well, how do you define that? Most of our more common and visible missions are SAR and LE. What most people don’t see are the Port Security units that deploy to almost every hotzone and warzone where you’ll find the Navy. Our fleet of 378’ cutters routinely sail with the Navy’s 5th (?) fleet. Whether or not they should is a matter for the brass to debate, but they’re there. CG Ledets have been in the Persian Gulf since before Desert Storm started, and they are still there, riding with Navy ships enforcing UN embargos. CG International Training Division members deploy all over the world in places like Haiti, Georgia, Columbia, Panama… often working closely with Navy and Marine elements.
Who do you think was dropping off all the Army guys at Normandy? Or the Marines at Guadalcanal or Iwo Jima? It wasn’t just Navy, they were also CG. And alot of them. Did you know that the second, more famous flag raised at Mt Suribachi came from a CG manned landing craft? Most Marines today could tell you who Douglas Munro was. Operations Market Time and Game Warden in the Mekong Delta were CG and Navy. The list goes on; the CG has fought in every major war this nation faced.
The difference between the USCG and NOAA is the exact same difference between the Army and NOAA - one is an armed service, and one is not.
If you have any specific questions about this, I’d be happy to answer them for you.
I apologize all for this hijack, but some things I just can’t let slide, especially when they come from a veteran.
As far as the OP goes, the CG has reserves 
Dang, is there some way to reply to a specific message, and/or keep track of who replies to you? I’m befuddled (and not only by the current subject).
My father was in the Navy for a bit over 30 years, I was in the Army for 3, and I would highly recommend any branch of the military for any young person (21 or younger, I’d venture). But I still don’t think “Uniformed Services” equals “The Military”. The ‘LAW’ be damned, an organization under direct control of the Department of Transportation ain’t the military, and I’ll leave it at that. (If that were the case, the DOT would be the Sixth Service, because as a former truck driver I can tell you that they have guns and an attitude AND a mission)
Back to the OP, any military or uniformed service experience would be richly rewarding to any young person. The regimentation and training your friend would receive would enrich their life. I ain’t recommending compulsory time for the masses, but the current generation falls short on the sense of duty and obligation that historically has been present in our country (that’s entirely subjective based on my observations of friends and the young 'uns at the Domino’s). Although she might not gain knowledge, she will acquire life skills that will grease the wheels of her success.
All things considered, 2, 3, or 4 years isn’t that big of a deal given the chance to serve and protect our country…and she’ll have the GI Bill (tell her to use it immediately…I just lost the chance to use mine in August of last year!) if she opts for that benefit.
Gak! Here’s a willow switch to raise a welt or three on my obnoxious behind, Ma’am!
I don’t get why you’re so against considering one mighty fine Uniformed & Armed Service as part of this country’s outstanding military, Potter. Coast Guard personnel go through Basic Training, receive compensation via the military compensation system, have enlisted and officer ranks, salute, and are subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Other law enforcement agents of the Department of Transportation are not subject to the UCMJ. I really don’t get your view on this.
Enlisting or receiving a commission in the Coast Guard will provide someone with the same life-enriching and learning experiences as with the other Armed Services. Receiving a commission in the NOAA or PHS will provide some, but not all, of those experiences.
“The members of the Coast Guard are also, even in peacetime, subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, just as the Commissioned Officers Corps of both the US Public Health Service and NOAA are.”
I know that USPHS officers are NOT subject to the UCMJ. I don’t know about NOAA officers (and its not easy to find out since there are only about 250 of them). (The are, however, under the same pay system.)
Chandeleur:
Thanks for the information. I think any way any person contributes to society is to the betterment of all. Hell, I’m not denigrating the USCG…that’s the last thing I’d ever want to do. I was trying to convey my opinion that guns, ammo, and a mandate to intercede in any unlawful circumstance or disaster doesn’t make it a military “service”. Like I irreverently spouted, the law don’t make it so, and “by definition” is worlds apart from “by law”.
If the US Army was an “arm” of the BATF, I wouldn’t consider them “military”, either…they’d just be a law enforcement vehicle of said bureaucracy. I don’t understand why that’s a breach of logic.
Okay! Here’s an oak branch! Don’t swing it too hard, though…I bruise easily!
Monty, I couldn’t agree with you more. The USCG would be just an enriching and rewarding experience as any military service would be. Gads, believe me, I think I’m engaging in far-flung semantics here. I’m not running down the CG…I just don’t believe they are military in the strict definition of the term.
Take a gander at where I live…12 years ago when I enlisted, I tried to get into the CG. They were my first choice. I love the water, but was too heavy (read: I was a lardass) to get accepted. It seems like they actually have a job, as opposed to preening and prancing around like we had to do in the US Army under a Corps command. That’s appealing. Nothing like being ‘highly’ trained to perform a job and not being able to perform it.
Ah, I could flog this subject to death. I’ll retire and leave this thread to folks with more cerebral latitude. I know what I believe and believe what I think, as do y’all. Ciao!
Well, you’re wrong during national emergencies and wars & I’m wrong during peacetime. See http://comilstd.org/ please.
Pottery, I understand you’re not trying to put the CG down. However, there are a few things I don’t think you understand, and there’s one thing you contend that I don’t understand.
It is also under the control of the Pentagon when necessary. In wartime, and by CinC direction, it reports directly to the Dept of Navy. The only reason the CG is not a part of DOD, is its placement there would negate its ability to perform its maritime law enforcement. Absent of a suitable agency to do that job, the CG remains outside DOD. The proposal has been put forth many times to go DOD. There just simply isn’t a need to.
I get the impression you believe the CG is a bunch of Federal LE types who are playing military. The reality is, its the exact opposite. It’s a small naval service that is pretending to be Federal LE types. We are sailors and airman. Most folks do not do LE; it is a collateral duty for anyone who does it, my self included.
Again, I don’t think you grasp what the CG is, or understand any of its history. I invite you to look at this cutter. Do you think the folk runnning that thing are just Federales akin to the FBI or Customs? The folks on that ship lead the exact same life as the folks on a similiar Navy ship. The missions are usually different, but the training, staffing, educations, quals, hardships etc. are the same. Sometimes the missions are not different. As I said earlier, these vessels routinely deploy with US Navy fleets.
I realize you are speaking of semantics and logic, as you said. You need to explain to me what your definition of military is. All you have cited is the Merriam Webster online. It says:
-snip-
1 a : of or relating to soldiers, arms, or war b : of or relating to armed forces; especially : of or relating to ground or sometimes ground and air forces as opposed to naval forces
2 a : performed or made by armed forces b : supported by armed force
3 : of or relating to the army
Def 1 rules out Navy. I’m sure they’ll disagree with that.
Def 2 applies to the CG.
Def 3 rules out everyone but Army. I’m sure lots of folks disagree with that.
What is your definition?
Let me restate that I realize you’re not attempting to denigrate my service, but I must say this: While there is no shortage of Coast Guardsman who have lost their lives in the line of duty during peacetime, there is also no shortage of those who lost their lives in war. Hundreds of thousands of Coast Guardsman have served their nation in war theaters all over the world and to imply that what they did was anyway less military than anyone else is unfounded and uncalled for. To cheapen the lives of those men who made the ultimate sacrifice by stating how they died wasn’t military is something I take great exception to, and I will never let that go unchallenged.
“Well, you’re wrong during national emergencies and wars & I’m wrong during peacetime. See http://comilstd.org/ please.”
Thanks for the link, Monty, but I think you’re really stretching here. The officers of the PHS are subject to the UCMJ about as often as it snows in L.A.
The last time the PHS was militarized was June 21, 1945, President Truman issued an executive order declaring “the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service to be a military service and a branch of the land and naval forces of the United States during the period of the present war.” The Corps remained militarized until July 3, 1952 when the Congress failed to continue the President’s authority to declare the PHS Corps to be a military service. Since then, the Public Health Service Act was amended to state that the President might declare the PHS Corps to be a military service not only in time of threatened or actual war, but also in "an emergency involving the national defense proclaimed by the President.” This hasn’t happened. So the only time in the 100 years that the Corps was militarized was from 1945-52. (President Wilson thought he militarized the PHS by executive order in 1917 but the order was overturned by the Attorney General in 1921. He held that the power to create a military force out of a civilian one was a duty residing in Congress alone and that under the existing law, the President could utilize but not convert the Service to a military force within the meaning of the definition “military or naval forces of the United States.”
http://lhncbc.nlm.nih.gov/apdb/phsHistory/resources/pdf/military.pdf
By the way, it is interesting that federal law refers to making the PHS a military service in time of war because it is not and would not be (unless swords count) an armed service. Currently, all 5 military services are armed services and the two non-military uniformed services are not armed services. But evidently it is possible to be a military service without being an armed service (at least in the mind of the President, Chairperson of the Joint Chiefs, Secretary of Defense, Justices of the Supreme Court, and members of Congress (if not in the opinion of PA).
Yeah: Don’t forget that all member of the Uniformed Services get to shop at the Commissaries and Exchanges. Plus, I don’t see any stretching there–you just described what I said, but in far greater detail.
“Well, you’re wrong during national emergencies and wars & I’m wrong during peacetime.”
Taking the last 100 years as a sample, you’re wrong 83-91% of the time and I’m wrong 7-11% of the time.
Cute, Yeah. What I’m saying is that we’re each wrong 1/2 of the instnances: peace vs. war.
At any rate, both the NOAA & PHS are Uniformed Services and get the same pay scheme as the other five.
Er…instances. Dratted typos.
Guys, may I respectfully request you move the Coast Guard to Great Debates? Not to mention the NOAA and the PHS?
What I got out of that was that the CG has a Reserve, a good piece of information BTW. How would they rate in desirability, ie in the Air Force/Navy/Army/Marines sequence?
If enlisting might mean they make no use of her hardwon knowledge, how would she maximize things? If it has to be a commission, does she have to have college in advance, or are there other ways?
How would the National Guard be different from the Reserves? Are the qualifications the same?
Pottery Accumulator, you recommend it specifically for a young person, 21 or under. My friend is actually in the upper half of the age range to sign up. Does that make a difference in your recommendations? Might she want to handle things differently?
Thanks again
There’s no debate, Mary. They’re factual questions: Is the Coast Guard Military? Answer: Yes. Are the Commissioned Corps of the NOAA & PHS Uniformed Services? Answer: Yes.
Now if she Enlists in the Armed Forces, they’ll either assign her to something in which she has some background (along with entering at a higher paygrade (usually) than E1, depending on the background) or she’ll be assigned to a training school where she’ll get training for whatever job she enlists.
The National Guard can be “called up” by the state. For instance, if there was some kind of weather disaster… hurricane, flood, etc.
When I enlisted in the Army Reserve I was 26. I think this was somewhat of a disadvantage. I was slightly more unwilling to adjust to the restrictive situation that some of the younger folks. I remember being especially pissed because I couldn’t have a diet coke. I saw you mentioned chemical as one of the areas offering an enlistment bonus. I was a 54 bravo… which is chemical warfare stuff. Good grief, it was not my idea of fun. We wore this get-up that could be compared to a fire fighters equipment. It is very hot and it is really difficult to function. Our mission, as I recall, was to train other soldiers how to fight and survive in a chemical environment. At that time, it seemed kind-of far-fetched to me. This is not the case these days. Probably wasn’t then either, I was just unaware. We did all kinds of stuff that I hated. We blew smoke for like four solid days and or nights. I was covered with this black gook. It seeped into our skin pours. Ugh!
You asked about officer training… why not check out some kind of ROTC. You must make a huge time commitment but they pay for your college. Once you earn your degree, I believe you belong to them for 6 years. I encourage you to go officer training if possible. The money is much better. I made about $180.00 each weekend. Officers were making $400.00 -$600.00 a weekend.
Personally, I think Navy would be good. Hot meals and clean sheets are a big plus.