Asking for money for a favor - how would you handle this?

In My Humble Opinion
1

Some background info:

We are re-doing our roof and had a bunch of guys come over this weekend to help with that. Most of them were close friends and family, 3 of them were co-workers of my husband. All were of course free to come and go whenever they had spare time, and any amount of work they could put in was appreciated. The request for help was just put out there as “if anyone can help us work on our roof this weekend, that would be great. Here is the info, etc.”

We of course provided food and drinks for everyone who came. I made sure everyone had what they wanted…pizza, sandwiches, water, gatorade, pop, beer, etc.

My husband is known for helping other people out. He has helped friends, family, and co-workers many times before, doing things like fixing their cars, helping them move, remodeling houses, tiling, etc. He is a handy guy and enjoys helping others when he can. His co-workers know this, in fact Friday night he got a call from a different co-worker asking to come help him move a washer and dryer, and he stopped what he was doing and went.

So, here’s the situation. One of the co-workers showed up yesterday and was there about 10 hours or so. He worked along with the others who were there and all was well. This morning he showed up to the house again, and my husband was suprised to see him. He thanked him for coming again, and said he would have to buy him a case of beer or something for helping out so much. The co-worker then said he actually needed compensation. He wanted to be paid for his time, and asked for $100.

My husband was suprised, no one else was under the assumption that we were paying for this. I feel that it is fine if you want to be paid for doing a side job or helping out a friend, however, the time to establish this is before you do the work, not after. To me, to show up to help someone and then ask for money afterward is…crass, to be polite about it. My husband would never ever dream of charging someone in this case were the situation reversed. He has done side jobs for money in the past, but anytime he does, the terms and hourly or job rate is clearly established before he starts work.

Honestly, if I knew this guy was a paid worker, I would have held him to a different standard than I did. He didn’t have any roofing experience, he mentioned he had never even been on a roof before, so it’s not like he was giving us expert help or anything. To tell the truth, if I knew he was charging, I would have told him to get back to work more than once. I didn’t care at all when he was just sitting around a few times when I saw him before, him just being there was a favor to us (I thought at the time).

So now we are at an odd place. My husband didn’t really know how to react, so he just told him we would give him $100. I don’t feel like we should have to, but in some ways I just think let’s pay this guy and then we know who not to do a favor for next time I guess. Price paid and lesson learned and all that. I don’t want to refuse to pay in case that makes things weird for my husband at work, but I also don’t want word getting out that we paid him but not the other people that were there (including his other co-worker, who actually used to be a roofer and was much more helpful.)

Thoughts? Would you expect to be paid in a situation like this? We have done favors like this for people so many times that maybe we just assume other people see it like we do, but maybe it is common for payment to be made?

2

Of course it’s not normal. Anyone who expects to get paid should bring it up beforehand. The guy seems a bit of a scammer or a bit dim. Probably a little of both.

Just to save the headaches I’d toss him a reasonable amount of cash. You’re redoing the roof anyway so what’s another $100? Since he was just an unskilled day laborer you should probably just give him minimum wage though (in your area seems to be $7.15/hr for <2 employees) with a little friendly advice to be more clear upfront in the future.

3

There has to be a “first $100” for there to be “another $100”.

I just don’t know, Velma. . .OK, yeah, you don’t come over under the auspices of helping someone out and then ask for money.

Maybe the guy figured, “oh, I’m going over to hold a ladder” and then all of a sudden, he’s roped into working all day on a roof for pizza and beer and missing college football. He can’t just rightly leave and go, “oh, I didn’t know we were doing the job of a roofing company for you.”

But, Jesus, you brought in a freakin’ crew to work on the roof (at least 3 co-workers. How many non-coworkers?). It’s not like you asked Neighbor Joe to help load the couch into a moving van, or paint a room.

Just putting out the offer “if anyone can help us work on our roof this weekend, that would be great. Here is the info, etc.” can put a little pressue on people.

After a certain age, I stopped asking people to help move. I would never ask people for something as big as working on a roof.

4

Yeah in one way it’s like you said, we are already shelling out for a roof so what’s another $100. On the other hand, I would rather give the money to just about anyone else than this guy. Plus I hope he keeps his mouth shut to the other guys that were there, although I know that the others wouldn’t accept money from us anyway.

The more I think about it, the more this guy is pissing me off. If I wanted to hire labor at $10 an hour I could go to Home Depot and do it and gotten people who would have helped out more than he did.

5

Priced roofers lately?

6

Sorry Trunk didn’t see your response when I posted.

We knew it was a lot to ask, that is why we didn’t pressure people at all. The others included my dad, my brother in law (we have helped re-do their roofs already before, so they were just returning a favor here) and 2 other close friends that we always trade work with. My husband and his friends do a lot of big remodeling jobs together.

I guess it could just be a misunderstanding with this one co-worker. But I do know that he knew that no one else was getting paid. And, I just found out from my brother-in-law, that he said early on in the day yesterday that he was there “to get a case” (of beer). He was under no pressure to stay any longer than he wanted. Several people were only there a few hours helping pick up debris, or like you said, hold a ladder pretty much. My mom was there picking up nails. No one was forced up on the roof or told they had to stay. The other 2 co-workers seemed fine with it, and they know that my husband would do the same for them.

Yes, I have priced roofers. This guy was not a roofer. Day labor for unskilled jobs is not the same as a pro roofer. This guy was not licensed, insured, there is no guarantee of his work, anything. If he had said up front that his fee was $10 an hour, he would have politely been told no thanks. I have a feeling he knew that. Who does work for someone and then decides what the rate is afterward? It doesn’t make any sense.

7

Heh, I remember a couple of your rants on buddies trying to rope you into building their porch, Trunk. I’m basically with you - there’s no way I would have gone over to fix someone’s damn roof as a fun weekend party.

But this guy DID show up and $100 bucks is probably a low percentage of the cost of the work they’re doing on the roof. If this guy is going to be working with Velma’s husband for the foreseeable future it’s probably worth the dough to put it behind. A cheap lesson on “free” labour, IMHO.

8

The problem is these same co-workers have no issues calling my husband for free labor. Believe me when I say that he gives out tenfold in free labor what he gets. Including expensive car repairs, building decks, tiling bathrooms, etc. And he is well known for doing it, which is why we don’t have trouble getting volunteers to help us do a roof when we need help ourselves.

9

:stuck_out_tongue: That’s going back. His deck is still pretty sweet.

That is my philosophy with this stuff.

I guess everyone’s situation is different. I wouldn’t ask someone to help on a big project of mine, and I wouldn’t want to be asked to give up a day for someone else. Only Velma really knows the personalities involved, the previous trade-offs, the “implied pressure”, etc.

Seriously, if I was going to ask for $100 after the fact, I just wouldn’t have gone in the first place.

Maybe the dude got home and he was cool with it, and all night long his wife was going, “you ain’t working for them for free all day. You’re going back over in the morning and asking for a hundred bucks.”

10

I’m worried about the other helpers, though. Would you be a little miffed if you found out $100 found its way into the pocket of someone else who helped, and nobody offered you any?

I mean, they apparently did it in the spirit of generousity (and as Velma said probably wouldn’t take it if offered) but I’d still be worried that in their secret little hearts they’d be saying, “wasn’t I good enough to be offered a little cash, too?”

11

This is the kicker. Normally I would say the time to discuss payment is before you start working. But because of the above I would say pay the guy and forget it. Of course you should deduct about $40 bucks for the food and drinks you provided him. Granted you did not spend that much on him but considering his attitude you are entitled to charge a service fee in addition to the actual cost. Hell if you price it right he could end up owing you money, food and drinks, cheerfull company, rent for any of your tools he used, parking fee. You, like him, are only limited by your imagination and your audacity.

12

Well, that’s not really the point unless this co-worker has called your husband for free labor.

13

This is exactly it. I don’t care at all if he doesn’t want to help us out, no one was going to call him up and say “where are you?” We had a few people say they had other plans. No problem.

We had enough other people there that his labor was not worth $100 to us, I guess that’s the only way to put it. I’m not saying that people who work on roofs shouldn’t get paid that much or more. If I hire them, that is. We didn’t hire this guy.

I thought about the wife thing too, but I don’t think this guy is married.

askeptic, if it were up to me, I probably would be petty about it. My husband is a bigger person than I am (I’ll admit it!) and I am betting he will insist on just paying it since he already said he would. But like Ellen said, I hope no one else ends up hearing about it - although BIL already knows and he thinks co-worker is the one being a jerk. I am more worried about the other co-workers though.

14

Well, it’s a little hard to judge the circumstances (as someone has already said), but I think your husband has the right idea. In other words, the request is a bit odd, but the guy did spend a couple days working for you, and $100 is not worth making a big deal over.

Look at it this way: the $100 is the return favor that the guy asked for. How is that any different from him saying “Hey, by the way, would you mind coming over tomorrow and fixing my car?” (Assume that this would be about a $100 return favor.) From context, it seems that your husband would think the car repair request was an okay quid pro quo.

15

I see your point, but I also know that husband has a reputation for helping people out. I don’t know if he helped this guy specifically, I can ask him, but this same co-worker was making small talk with me over lunch and telling me about how he doesn’t usually connect with people at work, but he took an instant liking to my husband. And how he was such a great guy, and had helped him out of a few jams at work.

I don’t mean to make my husband out to be a saint. I can start another thread listing all of his faults :slight_smile: But I do know that he is always known as the go to guy when you need a favor. (To a fault…I sometimes get upset with him for what I feel is too generous or letting people take advantage of him.)

16

What business is your husband in?

If he’s in a labor-type business (construction, drywall, plumbing, moving, landscaping etc) maybe I can see where the guy gets off thinking “MrVelma is hiring me for the weekend as a side job because of my work skills/line of work.”

If he is at a desk job, I would never think that a co-worker would assume that a friendly weekend helping-hand get-together is for pay.

I worked at my best friend’s house last summer, cleaning out his finished basement that had been filled to the ceiling with water. Four of his co-workers showed up, plus some of our friends. It was long, tedious, sweaty, heavy, hard work. None of us friends expected a dime, and neither did his co-workers. He happens to work at a desk job as a programmer, and it was obvious that his co-workers weren’t “hired” for their labor skills. They came over to help, and have free lunch.

My friend has also helped his co-workers do heavy work, just to be nice. Sometimes, he turns them down because he doesn’t want to do it. But he never asks for money.

17

**Velma, **has this guy received work-favors from your husband? Is your husband able to back bill him in the same way?

18

Well, it was only one day, but you’re right, he would think that was fine to do a return favor like that. I guess I will have to think of it that way too. It just seems unfair to the others that he got money and they didn’t.

19

It was rude but your husband already said okay to the request, so you’re stuck for the hundred. If any coworkers finds out I would tell the story and how shocked you were. Who cares if he looks like an ass. He is one.

Your husband might want to give it to him and apologize for the misunderstanding stating that he was looking for volunteers and he hadn’t planned to pay anyone for their favors. Explain he is paying it so not to have bad feelings between them. Maybe he’ll offer it back.

However, I am a little shocked that anyone would ask friends and coworkers to put on a roof. I think it is a little nervy to ask even a good friend to help you move. I just find this request a bit over the top as far as favors go but maybe that’s just me.

20

He’s a diemaker. The co-workers all work in the same shop he does but not all are diemakers. The other friends are all skilled labor workers (siding and construction and stuff.)

It’s hard to explain the dynamic. It has always seemed like since these guys are all good at different things, like siding, roofing, tiling, car repairs, etc. they all trade favors. They are all of the “handy with tools” variety and help each other out when something is beyond their expertise. No one has ever asked for pay before unless it was clearly set up as “this is a job that is a side job, this is my hourly rate” (usually greatly discounted or whatever for someone we know.)

For example, my husband helped one good friend finish a whole basement for free, but did it for someone else as a side job for pay. It was obvious which was which and the side job people got invoices and set times of work, whereas the friend got help as my husband had spare time. When you pay someone there is a different standard of expectations.