It isn’t just the soldiers doing it. :rolleyes:
Another reason to watch MSNBC.
The very best looting story I’ve ever heard: it’s 1942, and Singapore is falling. The Japanese are in the city, and fires are burning. One guy saunters in to the local branch of the Bank of England, and deposits a big wad of money, and takes the receipt.
After all, it’s a LOT easier to smuggle the receipt out than a wad of money, and when he gets back to England or Australia or whatnot, they’ll honor it as a valid deposit (even though the Japanese likely had plundered the bank’s vaults.)
Clever bastard…
Trinopus
I don’t deny the historical precedents. But again, i ask, does that make it right?
There were, after all, plenty of dictators in the world before Saddam Hussein. Do you believe that this fact excused Hussein’s actions?
Well, whether he was there specifically for theft, or due to his past record and California’s three strikes law, is irrelevant. Your first post in this thread implied that, just because this sort of plundering by troops has been happening for a long time, we shouldn’t worry about it. Well, stealing, marijuana trafficking, and prison escape all have long histories also, so, by your logic, we should just accept them.
You can’t fight human nature. I’d love to see corruption free police departments. I don’t think I will see it in my lifetime, however.
Note, I’m not excusing the behavior. I’m just acknowledging that it will happen. Being in the military does not necessarily make one a paragon of virtue.
It is wrong, they got caught, and they will be court-martialed. If found guilty, they will be punished.
10% of ANY group are assholes.
Sure.
What kind of court martial are these guys looking at and how long will they be splitting rocks?
Even the French?
<d&r>
War souvenirs are not unheard of. I think rifles are actually given to the troops by their commanders as souvenirs, just like Japanese swords, German daggers. Not fully automatic weapons which are not to be taken home.
My dad has a German Luger as a WWII souvenir…I never thought of him as a looter.
As for the cash…well, that probably wasn’t the smartest thing to try to take.
And there was a lot of stolen loot only recently returned to its rightful owners in Europe (leaving work before I have time to look it up…) a guy in Texas had it stashed, and he died. I think (again…not sure right now) that his brother tried to sell it and it came to light.
War souveniers are one thing. No operational firearms may be taken. No non-operational firearms can be taken unless processed for a Unit’s historical records and rendered non-operational by a professional.
I have an Iraqi tanker’s helmet, e-tool (a.k.a. shovel), two Officers Record Books, Chemical Weapons antidote kit, and maybe some other stuff from GW, Episode One. Items left on the battlefield.
Policy is from memory, and from 12 years ago, but I cannot imagine it being much different today.
I didn’t have the time right then for cites on war souvenirs.
As for the WWII Loot, it was called the Quidlenburg Hoard, a bit of info here: Quidlenburg Hoard
Of course I’m not condoning looting a country, just giving reference to another instance. There seem to be “asshat soldiers” in every war, PS, not just the wars you oppose…unless you also oppose the premise of WWII.
I heard soldiers interviewed saying that they just wanted to get a job done and return home to their family.
And Bush uses the word ‘game’ to refer to his war on Iraq or more precisely against Saddam and company – but the Iraqi nation is the victim just the same.
Has anyone here come across any serious studies of the psychological motivation and attitude of Bush and company and the US/UK military personnel engaged in this war?
If U.S. soldiers loot in Iraq, I can imagine that they must have read about the whole idea and prosecution of the war on Iraq being just a looting of oil in Iraq.
So, they draw the convenient conclusion that they could just as well do some looting on their own as they carry on their job.
Susma Rio Sep
Or perhaps the nation will be a beneficiary, only time will tell.
**
What the fuck are you talking 'bout Willis?
Oh, weal, oh woe, a couple of soldiers tried to steal some money, let’s condem the entire war because, after all, the army has said that they will not be punished, and U.S. Customs has thrown up their hands “There’s nothing we can do, anything brought back from Iraq is yours to keep”.
:rolleyes:
I’ve gotta agree with Weirddave here. The soldiers have been apprehended, and there’s absolutely no reason to believe that the Administration even indirectly encouraged our soldiers to loot.
I do expect the punishments to be nontrivial, though. Whatever their job was, the fact remains that they were representing the United States, and the eyes of the world were upon them - all of which every American soldier in Iraq surely knew. If they get off with six months apiece in the brig, we will look like we’re condoning this sort of thing. We can’t afford that.
What’s the point of being on the winning side if you don’t get to do a little pillaging and looting? I hate smiley faces, but consider that the one denoting a joke has been used here.
They should probably just skip the court martial and go straight to punishment.
I’m not quite sure i understand you, Brutus. First you say that what they did was no big deal, “just a fact of war,” and now you’re suggesting that they be denied even the army’s due process.
A gold-plated AK-47? Oh, go easy on them… NOBODY could resist such a tempting target. Uh… yeah… the gold-plated firearms were ASKING for it (or would that be AK-ing for it? Booyah, I’ll be here all night!).
Ah…C’mon, didn’t you guys ever see Three Kings?
When did President Bush refer to this war as a game? The only person I’m aware of that did that was Iraqs U.N. rep.