I contemplated putting this in GQ for about 2 seconds, but I guess there are probably a bunch of competing definitions out here.
My first instinct was that a person is considered gay when they label themselve gay, but alot of gays are “in the closet.” They don’t instantly become gay upon living an openly gay lifestyle.
Then there is the whole debate about whether homosexuality is a genetic trait or a behavior.
If it is genetic, does that mean you are gay even if you get married, have kids and never engage in homosexual sex? What about if you sneak away on the weekends every once in awhile and pick up guys at a gay bar?
If it is a behavior, how much contact with the same sex do you have to have to be considered gay? Is one time enough? Do you qualify as homosexual for a certain time after each encounter?
I understand that there is not a hard and fast line drawn in the sand where gays are on one side and hetero’s are on the other. At what point though do you cross from being slightly or heavily bi to be being officially gay?
I thought the consensus was pretty clear the homosexuality is something you were “born with”, as a combination of genetics and environment (weren’t there studies where lab rats raised in crowded conditions developed a higher number of homosexual descendants?). Whereas AFAIK the only people who insist that homosexuality is a “learned behavior” tend to be folks like religious fundamentalists, who are still hoping the matter will go away if they ignore it long enough…
Sorry for the slight hijack, but it seems to me that the OP rather assumes that homosexuality is a learned behavior (as if you become “officially” gay when you make a decision to do so) while giving shorter shrift to the idea of homosexuality as an inborn trait (which means you’re “officially” gay the moment you are born)…?
At what point are you officially gay or leasbian? For the question to be meaningful, you really should include “or straight” at the end. To do otherwise implies that homosexuality an oddity of human sexuality. I would also question the validity of using the word “officially” in this context, as I’m fairly certian that there is no regulating agency to pass out titles and the like.
So, to answer the question that I am able to, a person is gay when he or she (a) associates primarily with an attraction to one’s own sex and (b) identifies one’s self as being gay. A person is straight when the opposite is true.
That’s the subjective view (and, really, the only one that matters). For an objective, peer review-type position, a person is gay when other people are convinced of such a thing (for whatever reason).
You’re too hung up on labels. IMHO there is a continuum which every one is on. I submit to you that every one, if presented with the right circumstances, can submit to a homosexual act.
In addition, you must distinguish between homosexual activity and homsexual prediliction. The scenario of the “gay” person never having gay sex, but leading a “solid” married life, is one of a person preferring sex with the same sex, but not performing that. Whether he is “gay” or not is completely irrelevant and immaterial. That’s what he is. Why bother with a label? You can say that he has homosexual preference but does not commit homosexual acts. You can label him what you will.
You can define a homosexual as one who is attracted by those of the same sex, but you can also define a homosexual as one who commits sex with those of the same sex. It depends upon your definition.
As to bisexuality, that goes to my first point. There is this continuum encompassing mankind, from purely homosexual to purely heterosexual. I submit to you (no, I don’t) that no one is at the extreme end of either.
It seems to me that the question as phrased is meaningless. I don’t think anyone is “officially” gay. There isn’t (to my knowledge) a national registry.
As you pointed out, sexuality isn’t a black or white issue, it’s a spectrum, and peoples’ position in that range can vary at different times in their lives.
So, I’d like to see you define your terms. What do you mean by “considered gay?” Considered by whom?
People are sexual beings, but not all the time. People are sexual when they are sexual. People are homo-sexual when they are homo-sexual, people are hetero-sexual when they are hetero-sexual. When people are willfully engaging in a sexual act or entertaining a sexual thought or feeling, they are engaging in a particular form of sexuality at that time, and thus are at that time, in their capacity as sexual beings, engaged in a particular form of sexuality.
As an addendum to my previous post, I should add that there is some wiggle room in my definition, I suppose, to account for latent homosexuality (or latent heterosexuality, an admittedly rare phenomenon). One’s sexual orientation may be wholly or partially related to genetics, or it may have nothing to do with it; I really don’t know. Regardless, it is not a “lifestyle choice” and, to answer your other question, it is not determined by one’s actions. “No amount of homosexual activity can make someone gay, and no amount of heterosexual activity can make someone straight,” or so Father Garvey told us in Freshman year religion (love those Jesuits). A person discovers that he or she is gay/straight; there is no decision in the matter.
Freedom, when did you decide that you thought it was a pretty good idea to be attracted to women (or am I being too presumptuous)?
I’m officially gay! See, right here on my DD-213 documents (official discharge papers for the US military) the reason given for separation is “homosexual acts”
Freedom, as others have pointed out, human sexuality can’t be neatly compartmentalized; there’s no switch in the human brain that can be toggled between ‘GAY’ & ‘STRAIGHT’ no matter what the people at Exodus and Evergreen say.
People express themselves sexually in a variety of ways; some prefer sex with members of the same sex, sometimes they prefer both sexes and (most) people prefer sex with members of the opposite sex.
Lets phrase the question a bit differently and you can see how slippery the answer can be. How “black” does a person have to be in order to be a member of the African-American community? Is it based on skin color? Cultural attributes? How they talk and act? At some point do they cease being black and then become mulatto or white? Can you see the point I’m trying to make here?
My own, personal definition would be: if a person concsiously acknowledges to him/herself a primary sexual attraction to people of the same sex, then they’re gay. YMMV.
I was going to comment that I looked forward to seeing what Esprix, Hastur and Freyr had to say about this, when lo! my screen refreshed and Freyr had commented.
I would say that, despite the fact of the continuum, there is a tendency, both on the part of society as a whole and the subset considering itself gay, to make an official “break” at the point where a person, having realized that his/her orientation is exclusively or predominantly same-sex in nature, “comes out” and calls himself/herself gay.
However, this leaves a lot of gray area to be covered. And there is a song and dance that gets done every thread where homosexuality is mentioned, that there is a distinction between orientation and act. The celibate priest who has never had sexual relations with another person, but who finds men sexually attractive and women not, is just as gay as the circuit party-animal, from that point of view.
Actually, you couldn’t be any more wrong. There are plenty of people (including myself) who are at the extreme heterosexual end of the spectrum. I don’t find men sexually attractive. Never have. Probably never will. Never had a sexual experience with a man. Never “experimented” with men in college. Turns out, I just like girls. Don’t have a problem with the gay fellas.
barbitu8 - The only situation where I would ‘submit to a homosexual act’ is if I was forcibly raped by a very large inmate. That’s not gay though since its not consentual.
Here’s the Websters dictionary definition of ‘homosexual’.
Main Entry: ho·mo·sex·u·al
Pronunciation: "hO-m&-'sek-sh(&-)w&l, -'sek-sh&l
Function: adjective
Date: 1892
1 : of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2 : of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
ho·mo·sex·u·al·ly adverb
So basically, if your a guy and you see another guy and are like “I gotta have me some of that” then you are ‘gay’. Seems pretty straightforward.
BUT
what about these situations?:
If a contortionist is able to satisfy himself orally, is that gay?
If you are attracted to a woman on Jerry Springer and it turns out to be a man, are you gay?
If you like it when your girlfriend places foreign objects in your ass, is that gay?
The op assumes no such thing. The op leaves the door open to recognize that there are people who feel both ways. I was looking form input form both sides.
FTR…I personally think it is a combination of the two.
ummmm…
That’s kind of the point of this thread. I don’t really have a definition. The point came up in a conversation I was having recently, and I thought the SD would be a good place to see it hashed out.
At about 12:)
This really has nothing to do with the OP. There is no value judgement going on here. That very statement makes the assumption that if you are a man who is attracted to other men, then you are gay.
From where I stand, this is not widely accepted.
Perfectly.
It is the reason I posted the OP. I was hoping to get the line clarified a little bit.
So if a man is attracted to other men, but gets married to a woman, never sleeps with a man, but wants to his whole life, you would consider him straight?
In addition to your mental quotes on the word “officially”, would everyone please pretend I also remembered to change SN’s when posting on someone else’s computer?
Citizen007 is fairly new and I wouldn’t want to see him get flamed for my thoughts.
Here in Australia I guess it’s when you’re a card carrying member of the Sydney Gay & Lesbian Mardi Gras Committee.
Up until a few years ago, only SG&LMGC members could purchase tickets to the after party and it was a very effective way of keeping out troublemakers as straight people wanting to gawk weren’t prepared to join simply in order to get tickets.
You used to have to purchase the tickets from a gay sex shop, which is a whole other story.
Not gay, he is just masturbating on a new level. Hell if I could do that I’d most likely never leave the house. But no no no no would I ever do it to another guy.
Dude looks like a lady! Not gay unless you decide, “ah well, even with Mr. Winky she’s still pretty hot”. But that would probably just make you bi, unless it’s so much fun that you no longer have a use for wimmins.
Not gay, just means that whatever went in my butt after the cucumber wasn’t quite as much fun as the vibrator was. Ain’t no guy going there though.
Good point barbitu8. If I didn’t know, and I liked it, that still wouldn’t make me gay. Would I willingly let a guy go there? No I wouldn’t. I’m not a phobe, just not interested in the least. To me, gay is when you are not attracted to the opposite sex in any physical way. Does it go deeper? Perhaps it does, but since I’m not gay, I can’t really answer the question further as I simply do not know. It could be just like straight people. Why am I straight? I don’t know, I just am and never saw any point in thinking about it beyond that
