Atheist Churches, Good or Bad Idea.

[Dinsdale]

@pchaos

Here’s what monotheism offers that atheism doesn’t. Monotheism says the objective of life is to love God and that if you do He will take care of you.

I almost wonder if there are different human species. Why is it that believers are unable or unwilling to accept that a life can be richer and more rewarding if led for its own sake, rather than to please/appease/whatever some magical being. Conversely, how much less a life is, if not the result of personal introspection and choice, rather than in the hopes of earning a ticket to the afterlife.

For myself - and many nonbelievers - life and nature are all the more beautiful for not depending on a god. There is a ton of beautiful writing along these lines that anyone truly interested could easily find.

On the other hand, at times I almost wish I were able to convince myself to rely on some supernatural belief as an excuse, or to dream of some afterlife. Hell, I’d like a working pair of them x-ray specs too, while I’m at it…

And for me at least, I keep coming back to this thread because the sort of ignorance you espouse is so prevalent in America. It is refreshing to read other folk who see things similarly as I, and to take a few moments to try to express in words what is so unavoidably obvious to me, but what so many ostensiblly sane and intelligent folk seem incapable/unwilling to accept. Especially appropriate on today - x-marks the idiot day.

[pchaos]

@Great_Antibob

Based on my track record on this thread, this post will probably be ignored by pchaos, but I’ll ask again if it is:

Since all atheists are similar enough to form a single “church”, all monotheists should also be similar enough to each other, right?

No I didn’t say that. Even within my church people are quite different, but they aren’t apathetic. However, we do not believe that people should do their “own thing.” I know it’s a broad generalization, but I would say it is acceptable within a group of atheists…that each go their own way.

In other words do your own thing, because they are not a religion or a world view.

As a matter of fact they are encouraged to do their own thing. And if your thing is to sit around and do nothing, that’s okay too.

[Great_Antibob]

@pchaos

I know it’s a broad generalization, but I would say it is acceptable within a group of atheists…that each go their own way.

So, bring it full circle.

You seem to be contradicting your original point.

You’ve already been given examples of individual groups of atheists who “do their own thing”, including helping out in the community.

Why then, do atheists need to join up and form a general community or church when monotheists clearly don’t do the same?

[The_Other_Waldo_Pepper]

@pchaos

[QUOTE=The Other Waldo Pepper]
Would lacking a belief in God stop you from living your life to the fullest and leaving a legacy to the next generation?

It could, throw out God and other deities, I’ll be stumbling around for a while like Human Action. Just joking, among the Godless heathens here, I appreciate your ideas the most.
[/QUOTE]

Once again, I’m a card-carrying theist of the Praying-In-Hebrew persuasion.

[pchaos]

@Great_Antibob

Why then, do atheists need to join up and form a general community or church when monotheists clearly don’t do the same?

But within our separate churches there’s synergy, we have a diverse group with common values and the synergy allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements.

[Marley23]

@pchaos

As a matter of fact they are encouraged to do their own thing.

I probably wouldn’t word it quite this way because there isn’t some kind of body doing the encouraging, but yes, that’s generally right. Atheists tend to pride themselves on making their own decisions and coming to their own conclusions about these kinds of things. In Christianity a personal relationship with Jesus is important, but your individuality isn’t particularly significant. A major part of just about every religions is following teachings someone wrote down a long time ago even though everybody picks and chooses and mixes and matches from within that framework.

@pchaos

But within our separate churches there’s synergy, we have a diverse group with common values and the synergy allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements.

Unless there’s a dispute over doctrine, but those are rare in religion I suppose. And atheists can do this, too. But in most cases they don’t do it as part of The Atheism League. You’re still calling this a failure of outreach or messaging or something instead of seeing that it’s part of the point.

[DrFidelius]

@pchaos

But within our separate churches there’s synergy, we have a diverse group with common values and the synergy allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements.

Yes, and when people get together for Habitat for Humanity, they can achieve significant things regardless of whether or if they attend any given church. You have another network of “community” in your congregation, that is the only difference when it comes to volunteering and public service between a Christian group and an (at least officially) non-religious organization.

[simster]

@pchaos

But within our separate churches there’s synergy, we have a diverse group with common values and the synergy allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements.

and without any church - there is a synergy - we have a diverse group with common values and interests - this allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements. Our synergy is just not based on ‘relgion’ or ‘God’ - its based on ‘reality’.

You think atheists have not contributed anything? You really need to get out more.

[Darth_Panda]

@Marley23

Unless there’s a dispute over doctrine, but those are rare in religion I suppose. And atheists can do this, too. But in most cases they don’t do it as part of The Atheism League. You’re still calling this a failure of outreach or messaging or something instead of seeing that it’s part of the point.

It really pisses me off that the Atheist League started scheduling their meetings at the same time as the Justice League. How do I choose?!

[Human_Action]

@pchaos

I know it’s a broad generalization, but I would say it is acceptable within a group of atheists…that each go their own way.

In other words do your own thing, because they are not a religion or a world view.

As a matter of fact they are encouraged to do their own thing. And if your thing is to sit around and do nothing, that’s okay too.

@Marley23

I probably wouldn’t word it quite this way because there isn’t some kind of body doing the encouraging, but yes, that’s generally right. Atheists tend to pride themselves on making their own decisions and coming to their own conclusions about these kinds of things.

Just to once again affirm that atheists have no beliefs in common other than the lack of belief in gods, here’s some examples of atheists that were strongly opposed to “going your own way” and “making [your] own decisions”:

Communist Party of the Soviet Union

Chinese Communist Party

Khmer Rouge

[Marley23]

@Darth_Panda

It really pisses me off that the Atheist League started scheduling their meetings at the same time as the Justice League. How do I choose?!

You can meet us at the restaurant after the meeting. We’ll be at… aw, shit!

[pchaos]

@Human_Action

Just to once again affirm that atheists have no beliefs in common other than the lack of belief in gods, here’s some examples of atheists that were strongly opposed to “going your own way” and “making [your] own decisions”:

Chinese Communist Party

The CCP is not a particularly good example…that is actually a fear of theists, atheism leads to something like the CCP. A repressive society where major disruptive changes trampling human rights are acceptable as long as society as a whole is benefited.

But the CCP really is a political organization and atheism is really a relatively small part of their overall world view.

[Great_Antibob]

@pchaos

But within our separate churches there’s synergy, we have a diverse group with common values and the synergy allows us to support each other and accomplish significant achievements.

Really? You mean there’s significant synergy between synagogues, mosques, and Christian churches?

You’re again conflating monotheism with Christianity - and only really certain brands of American Protestantism at that. Your “diverse” group leaves out a significant chunk of the world’s monotheism.

Again, atheism is just like monotheism - there’s not just one kind.

@pchaos

But the CCP really is a political organization and atheism is really a relatively small part of their overall world view.

You just got the point! Congratulations! Now to see if it sticks.

Monotheism, polytheism, and atheism are only descriptors about small parts of worldviews. They don’t define the world view.

[Marley23]

@pchaos

The CCP is not a particularly good example…that is actually a fear of theists, atheism leads to something like the CCP. A repressive society where major disruptive changes trampling human rights are acceptable as long as society as a whole is benefited.

A horrible dictatorship doesn’t seem too likely if you think atheists can’t even decide what restaurant to eat at.

[Human_Action]

@pchaos

The CCP is not a particularly good example…that is actually a fear of theists, atheism leads to something like the CCP. A repressive society where major disruptive changes trampling human rights are acceptable as long as society as a whole is benefited.

Are you saying that atheism leads to repressive societies that disregard human rights?

@pchaos

But the CCP really is a political organization and atheism is really a relatively small part of their overall world view.

Exactly. Atheism is a small part of every atheist’s worldview, because it is not in itself a philosophy/doctrine/worldview. Some atheists are Communists, some are libertarians, some are anarchists, some are centrist Democrats, some are empiricists, some are conspiracy theorists, and on and on and on.

[Razncain]

@pchaos

I know I’m flippant at times…but I meant it when I say that you are one of my favorites on this board. And it is simply because you have been open and honest with me.

The others haven’t been open and honest to you other than that poster? Even when you attempt to compliment, it comes off as just another way to jab others through insinuation, and this seems to be done in a great deal of your posts.

I just want to live my life to fullest and leave a legacy to the next generation, now your telling me that atheists have nothing more to offer than there’s no God. Give me a break I have no time for this.

Earlier you said you had plenty of time for it, now you say you don’t, and judging from the number of posts since you wrote that, evidently have time for it once again.

You don’t think atheists aren’t capable of living life to their fullest without promises or threats? Gosh man, since I think this is the only life I got, it makes it just that much more special and sweeter to me. Have you also noticed religious folk don’t seem in any rush to get to the next life too? Although they have been promised it will be much better than this one, while not so good for unbelievers.

By saying such a thing, are you really choosing to believe because it is emotionally appealing to you? Honestly, if your belief didn’t offer eternal life, would you still believe in it? Take that main promise away, and see how many today would still cling to it.

Atheism for me has never been about what it offers or is trying to sell. It’s just as natural a way of thinking for me as also not believing in leprechauns, unicorns, angels, ghosts, etc. I rarely even dwell on it. If as much people spent time on believing in those sorts of things as gods, and if these people voted on issues or in other ways affected my life, I’m sure words would be formed and more time devoted to counter such beliefs.

Thinking about such things doesn’t alter the course in a next life one iota. Although your religion has promised you it does if only you can get yourself to believe in such and such. Meanwhile, good luck in this life, you seem to need it, particularly how you struggle with the English language, which I find surprising from someone that claims to be a lawyer. But on-line, some choose to be whatever persona their imagination can muster up, so I won’t take you all that serious on that either.

[Der_Trihs]

@Darth_Panda

It really pisses me off that the Atheist League started scheduling their meetings at the same time as the Justice League. How do I choose?!

No contest. With the Justice League you get to wear capes. And hang out in a space station!

[pchaos]

@Human_Action

Are you saying that atheism leads to repressive societies that disregard human rights?

There are some people that believe that. I personally don’t.

Communism is the prime example. The CCP, the Khymer Rouge, and Cuba.

It’s interesting to note that the CCP didn’t seem to get their act together until they allowed for more personal freedom. Under Deng Hsiao Peng, the economy began to expand and different religions began to be acceptable again. However, unfortunately, the Party (CCP) also became all-powerful. This culminated in the Tiananmen Square Massacre in the late 1980’s.

[QuickSilver]

The *open practice *of different religions became acceptable again. I submit that religion and fait in god was never in much danger under the CCP or the CCCP.

[pchaos]

@Marley23

I probably wouldn’t word it quite this way because there isn’t some kind of body doing the encouraging, but yes, that’s generally right.

But see, that’s the difference, in a church there’s an entire congregation that is encouraging you.