I’ve been meaning to post this for a while, but I’ve been too busy. Robert Jensen is a political activist, University of Texas journalism professor, and avowed athiest who has caught a lot of flak over his blunt statements on 9/11 and American imperialism. Jim Rigby is a Presbyterian minister who has run afoul of his national organization for things like officiating at same sex weddings. Around this time last year, Jennings made his most controversial move yet: he asked Rigby if he could join his church, St. Andrew’s Presbyterian Church in Austin, Texas. Perhaps just as surprisingly, Rigby agreed. I’ll let them explain why:
If the question is really more “Should a church let an atheist join their congregation” (i.e. be a full fledged letter-member rather than just attend services), that’s totally up to the church. I knew an Episcopal priest whose services I enjoyed attending and who said frankly “I don’t think it’s as important that a person believe in the divinity of Jesus as that they live true to the teachings of Jesus”, which endeared her to some of her congregation and made her anathemous to the rest, but while I still disagreed with her even on that point it’s the nearest I’d have come to joining a church and some did who otherwise wouldn’t have. (She was asked to resign because a minority-but a minority who made a big dent in tithes- left until she was gone- some were upset but I thought it was quite fair; if she doesn’t represent the views of most of the congregation she shouldn’t be there, that’s religiocapitalism.)
Should Christians let atheists attend church? Are you serious? Aren’t Christians compelled to spread the Word and convert the heathen? How can they do so if the heathen is not allowed inside the sanctified structure? Should they put loudspeakers outside and let them gather in the parking lot?
As near as I can tell, “the Unitarian Church is for” about an hour on Sundays. Anything more specific reeks too much of dogma. (I used to attend a UU fellowship, but damn- it’s a religion, you’ve gotta be for something - all they could generally agree on was they were against the Baptists.)
Sure, but this is a little different than the traditional “ministering to the wayward.” Rigby has no intention of converting Jensen into a theist, and Jensen has no intention of doing so either.
I would not assume so quickly that Rigby does not hope to convert Jensen. Rigby is simply smart enough to start with small bits and pieces.
Many a convert just goes through the classes to please their spouse. I have gone through the new member classes at many a Presbyterian church - you are required to go through them each time you change congregations if you want to be a full voting member. A third are there because their spouse wants to join. Of those, some will just be cultural Christians. However, a few will actually find a path to God and become true believers.
I was one of those.
A smart evangelical (which all of us Christians are supposed to be) will not push people away - he (or she) will welcome all in hopes of converting as many as possible.
Want to come to church with me? We have free child care, decent coffee, lots of snacks, interesting speakers, and a nice choir. Maybe over time you will open yourself to God. We are willing to take the expense of having you in the congregation (as long as you behave) in exchange for the hope of you becoming a Christian.
Rigby’s not your average pastor. His views on religion are progressive, to say the least. He’s already run afoul of the national Presbyterian organization for blessing same sex marriages and ordaining an openly gay elder, and is very outspoken for civil rights and social justice. He’s not trying to convert Jensen because he knows what his purpose was in joining the church. Jensen’s not a lost, fragile soul looking for answers, coffee, and free child care, he’s a very shrewd and outspoken political activist.
Besides, if that really was Rigby’s intention, he chose a spectacularly stupid way to go about it. Intead of trying to convert him first and let him join second, he flouted the rules of the national organization once again and let an avowed atheist with no intention of converting join. They’ve told him to boot Jensen or risk getting the boot himself, but he’s refused.
Whatever you want to drop. We have a third of our congregation who formally pledge, the rest just drop it in without a tax receipt. Plenty of cash on the plate as it goes around too.
I am FULLY aware of the game that Rigby plays. The progressive Christian movement is strong in the Presbyterian Church (where I am an ordained Deacon). I expect the church to once again split in two over the issue of gay marriage and ordination. Rigby wants to be on the leading edge of the movement, messing with the National Assembly, forcing the debate.
What you consider to be stupid, I consider to be shrewd. You don’t convert a Jensen-type by requiring platitudes on the altar. You bring him into the church where he can do God’s work with other believers. Over time there is a chance he will convert himself. We don’t just proslytize to the broken lost souls - we also reach out to the tough-as-nails alley fighters who don’t think that they need God. BOTH are welcome, and the latter make for great evangelizers themselves.
If you have a 10% tithe do you tithe on pretax or post-tax income? I’ve always wondered about that one. Have you ever had a conversation about that at your church?
But actually I was wondering what the relative cost of my family’s tax on the services of the church would come out to.
Sure, but you don’t let him join until he does. What doth it benefit a man if he gain a convert but lose his job? If his intention was to ultimately convert him instead of to make a political point, why did he go about it it the way he did?
In my time on the finance committee, we rarely were detailed enough to run the variable cost of an individual member of the congregation. We knew the church’s overall annual budget and what each family’s share would be, but that includes fixed costs.
We honestly do not run that way - we want you to give what feel’s right. The 10% figure only comes out in jest, “based on the average pledge, our entire congregation is below the poverty line!”
We are also fortunate that we do not live off of the dead. By that I mean that our budget is not dependent on members dying and leaving us money. Many older churches face that - their current members do not donate much, and the remainder is made up each year when someone dies and leaves a percentage to the church.
I personally target 10% of disposable income as my minimum pledge, and I am always over my pledge by the end of the year. I see it as giving some of the money left over after I have kept the lights on and food on the table. Others approach in a different fashion.
Should Atheists go to Church?..
It is somewhat hard to answer a “should question” like this, so I guess I’ll answer it with a question of my own: “Why does the Atheist want to go?” It’s not that I’m trying to be coy, but I think the question of why people go to church- anyone, really- is relevant. Are they going to satisfy curiosity? Do they just want a place to socialize with other adults? Seeking a sense of acceptance? Looking for “more”? Looking to start a fight?
Religion and church do a lot of different things for different people. There are plenty of people who go to church every Sunday not because they’re filled with religious fervor, but because they like the songs or perhaps they really enjoy milling around before/after the sermon chatting over coffee. I guess I’ll just offer that, if our hypothetical atheist wants to go to church and they aren’t doing it simply to cause trouble they “should” go.
Should Jenson do this?..
I guess he should. He openly offers that it is a “political” act and describes his interest in discussing political issues via the religious concepts which might be “at the core” of those political issues. I have to say though, I find it funny that he assumes his fellow churchees want to discuss matters political in light of the fact that he’s culturally aware enough to recognize that America is somewhat “depoliticized” and that “…ordinary people in everyday spaces do not routinely talk about politics and underlying values…” It sounds like he’s willing to drag things back towards politics. Lots of people do it though, so whatever. It seems to fall under the heading of “socializing with other adults” anyway.
Personally, I don’t understand why he’d want to-- surely he could find other outlets for scintillating political discourse, right? To me, it smacks of posturing. Also, (and I don’t want to start a “What is Christianity, really?” debate here) I think “joining” any organized group by renouncing various foundational concepts and redefining that group in a less-than-mainstream fashion at the outset isn’t necessarily the most classy thing ever. But hey, it’s their church and he can join if they want him.
Rigby did not let him join - the church’s Session did. In the Presbyterian Church the Session votes on membership. The Session is made up of Elders who are elected by the members of the Congregation.
The sermon I most clearly remember on this subject came from a minister who could not remember which was “Net” and which was “Gross” and was finally reduced to explaining to the congregation that it didn’t matter whether it was the Big number or the Little number.
We then discussed the issue in the car on the way home. My mother likes counting donations to the food pantry, or to Katrina victems, or missions as part of her tithe, my father prefers to give 10%(post-tax) rounded upwards to make a nice round number. So, together they probaby lean closer to that pre-tax 10% than they would if they tithed separately.
- all they could generally agree on was they were against the Baptists.)