There is more support for pretax (give God your first and best).
See how Presbyterians work? Every level is a vote, with an appeals process and everything. There is a reason the only minister to sign the Declaration was a Presbyterian.
This particular congregation appears to be more politically oriented than most (and in Austin, that’s saying something). Rigby and Jensen also cohost a monthly event called “Last Sunday” (link) Topics include things like “War and Empire …to examine not only the current war in Iraq and the ambitions of this administration, but the larger project of dominance that U.S. policymakers have pursued in the last half-century – and the consequences of that for the world.”
Fair enough, but Rigby is already looking at a possible church trial for violating the Book of Order for marrying same sex couples, and this has to just add fuel to the fire. I can’t see this as a good career move for him.
Depends on whether he is happy at St. Andrew’s or not. He is still on their website, along with all members of the Session. He has articles posted from him and Jensen there as well. I doubt the Session will end his contract. It would take serious work to de-frock him, and I don’t know if the National Assembly would want to go down that path or not.
I wish MORE ministers would take risks - from both sides of the political aisle. There has been too much hiding and not enough preaching how God’s word should be applied to the world today.
I agree with the priest completely, but realize it is a fatal mistake to preach works trump belief in any Christian church. Most Christian doctrine is about belief and not works. They usually say “if you believe, then you will do the works also.” I have not found this to be true or a lot of people are not telling the truth about what they believe.
In summary it is only works, actions, thoughts, and deeds that will save you. Not from God, but from yourself.
Really enjoyed the links. Thanks.
There’s a difference between attending and joining.
I am not a member of my church (Presbyterian, fwiw). I’ve attended there very regularly for 6 or 7 years. I contribute my time and my money. I’ve been involved in multiple groups at the church. I receive spiritual and mental guidance and support there. But I’m not a member because I still have not decided whether I’m ready to make the all of the statements of faith that the church asks and whether I agree enough with the church’s position in certain theological questions. People like me are not at all uncommon in my church or the churches I’ve attended.
To me, joining a church is saying that you publically agree with the beliefs of that church and support them. And both the joiner and the church to be joined should be sure that they align in core beliefs. For most Christian churches, an avowed athiest is not so aligned.
Even after reading their articles, I still don’t understand why Jensen joined or why Rigby allowed it. From Jensen’s side - I can understand why he might want to support some of the political work he sees being organized in that church or want to have some of the discussions he sees taking place in a church. But that can be done without being a member. Rigby, for his part, makes an interesting (but not really compelling) argument as to why doubters should be allowed to join - but Jensen is not a doubter or a questioner. Is his church incapable of being welcoming, supporting, or loving to people who are not members? And if so - why?
I was a member of the United Church of Christ for more than a decade. For those of you who aren’t familiar, the UCC is about as free-thinking as any group that calls itself Christian in the world.
Despite this willingness to accept everyone, we did ask them to pledge a “statement of faith” when they became members (i.e., the right to vote on church matters – calling a minister, approving the budget, etc.) It was pretty bland as statements of faith go. We said we believed in a triune God, in the divine nature of Jesus…and that was about it.
We had people who attended the church for years who never joined, and of course we had the usual share of visitors, guests and homeless people who just wanted to be some place warm on a Sunday morning. Everyone was welcome, but if you wanted to actually join the church, even a church as liberal as this one, you had to say publicly that you at least believed in God.
Ah, so they are. In that case, “game on!”
…Matter of fact, notwithstanding all the Christianity involved, that sounds like a rather interesting congregation. Too bad they’re a minority, eh?
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Christians out there who say they believe in Jesus as their savior, and then fail to follow what he taught in the areas of social responsibility.
As you may know (but others here may not and get the wrong impression), each UCC congregation is autonomous and self-governing, and while that was your experience in that particular congregation, other UCC churches may be completely different. My own doesn’t require any statement of faith whatsoever. We have atheists, agnostics, philosophical Christians, orthodox Christians, heterodox Christians, etc. For most of us, we see God most clearly revealed in the life and experience of Jesus Christ. There are others in my church who don’t agree, but that’s okay. What we have in common is a desire to follow Jesus and belong to a community that helps us figure out what that means.
Believing in Jesus, in my opinion, is less a matter of believing specific things about Jesus. It’s about trusting in Jesus, and trusting that he shows us the way to live eternal life, which is about much more than just the afterlife.
Overtly progressive Christian churches like St. Andrew’s and my own in Santa Cruz may be in the minority, but we’re growing and getting more outspoken. Checking the St. Andrew’s website, it looks like they’re also a member of the Center for Progressive Christianity, which some Dopers may be interested in.
Why in the hell not? If the athiest wants to go to some religious service, what’s wrong with that? Maybe the athiest wants to experience a mass and better understand what he believes in (ironically, by joining others in believing the exact opposite).
If a famous athiest approaches a church and asks and is let in, I don’t see the problem. If a famous athiest does the same thing and the church says no, then there’s a big problem. What church wouldn’t be open to nonbelievers?
Least Original User Name Ever joining the church is not being allowed into the building with the pointy roof, it is becoming part of the body of Jesus, one who has given his life to Christ.
Is this true for all religions?
Or all denominations.
If not, I reserve a pinky. 
I don’t think that this is generally accepted in Jewdeism, Buddhism, Islam and a few others. AFAIK most mainstream Christian faiths will agree with this, as the concept of the church is scripturally based. Some denominations may be more exclusive in who they consider part of the church - setting man made rules for what is of the Spirit of God, which IMHO is not the way to go about it.
Have you ever been in the church parking lot when mass is over? The teachings of Jesus appear to be too large to fit through a car door, never mind the rest of their life choices.
Judaism.
I’m somewhat confused here. What exactly does “joining a church” mean in the context of this Particular Church?
For all intents and purposes, I’m an atheist who goes to church. I’ve written long letters to the local priest about why, but to sum up very briefly:
- While I don’t believe there is a jot of history in the Bible, it is filled with cautionary tales and inspirational stories from which anyone can draw strength in time of travail and joy in time of peace. Christmas is a story of hope and new beginning; Easter is a story of human transcendence over tragedy and oppression.
- All of the government assistance programs in the history of the United States haven’t helped half as many people as faith-based charities. Contrary to the ravings of people like Richard Dawkins, Christianity has done far, far more good than evil for humanity.
- We humans are more than just the most advanced mammals on the planet; how much more, I don’t know, but there really is something call the “human spirit,” and means we’re not just intelligent, we’re spiritual.
Beyond that, I owe no one any explanation for the irresistible urge I have to attend Eucharist, recite the Liturgy, and receive Communion. It’s there, it’s meaningful to me, and some day I hope to better define that meaning.