I have a friend who says she is an atheist. She went to catholic school when she was younger so she knows all of the rituals and stuff of the catholic religion. We have attended a couple of catholic friends weddings, and she goes through all the formalities and repeats all the prayers and even takes communion! To top it all of she tells people that she is catholic. I have asked her, “if you don’t even believe in god, how come you participate in mass?” She says that it is just habit from her early schooling. I asked her, “how can you say your catholic if you don’t believe in god?” She said that it is the upbringing that makes you catholic, not what you believe. That doesn’t make any sense to me. I don’t follow any religion, but I think that in order to say you are part of a religion you have to believe in what the religion teaches and practices. The general lack of enthusiasm at a catholic mass has always led me to believe that many of the people attending did not really believe what they were saying, or at least did not care either way, but this takes it to a new level. What do you think?
Sounds like she’s an atheist in belief and a social Catholic. That is, a person who claims Catholocism by way of their upbringing and social connections, not through any true belief in the Church’s teaching.
Old Irish joke: A man is walking through the streets of Belfast late at night, when he feels the barrel of a gun at his back. A terrorist’s voice snarls, “All right, mister, what are you, Catholic or Protestant?” The man replies, “Why… neither. I’m an atheist.” The gunman snaps back impatiently, “Yeah, yeah, yeah, but are you a CATHOLIC atheist or a PROTESTANT atheist???”
Or, those of you who’ve read “Catch 22” may recall a scene in which Yossarian and his whore/girlfriend, who both claim to be atheists, are talking about God. Yossarian begins railing and cursing at God for the cruek things he does to people. His girlfriend begins crying and begs Yossarian to stop. Yossarian is astonished, and says, “What do you care if I curse God? I thought you said you were an atheist?” She says, “I am… but the God I don’t believe in is good, kind and loving.”
Point being, even if you no longer believe in things you were taught as a child, the old customs and beliefs become a part of you, and they start to feel natural.
Not everybody who leaves a religion leaves with bitterness and anger, you know. Oh sure, many do, and you’ll have no trouble finding ex-Catholics who’ll rant and rave for hours about how much they hate the Church. On the other hand, some who leave still have some fond memories. To use a crude analogy, you may no longer believe in Santa Claus… but do you hold a grudge against your parents for lying to you about Santa? Do you rage and fume against Christmas? Probably not! You no longer believe in him, but you probably have warm, fond memories of writing letters to the North Pole, of leaving out milk and cookies for St. Nick, of running to the tree to see your presents, etc.
As important as doctrine is, it’s only a PART of the whole religious experience most Catholics go through. Even an ex-Catholic who no longer believes in God may STILL have fond memories of singing in the choir with her friends, of going to midnight Mass with her folks, of how pretty her First Communion dress was.
Well, the friend described in the original post is apparently an atheist who’s internalized a lot of the Catholicism she grew up with. It’s a big part of who she is, even if she no longer puts much stock in the Church’s fundamental teachings. In a sense, she’s thrown away the baby, but is really attached to the bathwater!
In SOME ways, it’s as hard to stop being Catholic as it is to stop being black! The terrorist in the joke would have understood this perfectly.
Would someone who was raised atheist and converted to catholicism say that they were an atheist if asked what religion they were? I can’t imagine they would.
Or, if you were raised in a vegetarian family and then started to eat meat when you left the house you could not still consider yourself a vegetarian.
It’s like saying you are pro life and then having an abortion.
IMHO, religion is not something you can be wishy-washy about. You can not say you are a catholic if you don’t believe in god because the entire catholic religion is based off that belief.
Except, in Catholicism, IIRC, you become Catholic when you’re baptized Catholic, and from their perspective, you’re Catholic forever after that. You might become an atheist, for example, but for the Catholic Church, you’re just a Catholic who’s committing a sin (not believing in G-d)
Good point. Still weird to me though 
It seems that you, horhay_achoa, would certainly not identify yourself as a Catholic even if you were raised Catholic and then became an atheist. However, people define themselves differently, and it seems that your friend sees things in a different way. I don’t think she is being dishonest, merely that she does not view her own background and philosophy in the same way that you view yours.
FYI, I was raised Catholic, and remain a practicing Catholic, and I’m not at all offended or bothered by someone who was raised Catholic still identifying herself as Catholic as you described.
In the words of Sister Adrianne (my third grade teacher), “tend your own garden.”
Couldn’t the gunman have seen the tattoo on the back of his neck? Sorry, had to get a little MP in there.
I’m probably a lapsed Catholic then. Was baptized as an infink and went to catechism until I was six but was never confirmed as mom pulled me out and took my brother and I to a variety of protestant denomination churches. I started going to church again when I was dating a Catholic woman and went to Easter mass last year. I took it as a good sign that being schpritzed with holy water didn’t make my skin burn off but decided that R.C. wasn’t for me and started going to an evangelical Lutheran church.
For many of us lapsed Catholics there is a whole cultural aspect to Catholicism that is quite apart from the doctrinal aspect. I no longer believe much of the latter, but I will never be able to detach myself from the former. Believe me, I spent many years trying.
Nowadays I go to Mass, but only a couple times a year, and I do take communion - and it is MHO that God (if there is one) would be happier to have more of us keeping even in that small amount of touch with the Church, than have us stay away completely because we aren’t willing or able to accept every little bit of the dogma.
And anyone who has a problem with that can bite me 
If you become an atheist you don’t have a small problem with the dogma…you have a huge problem with the entire religion. So you think god will look more favorably upon you if you go through the motions of worshiping him/her/it even though you don’t believe in him/her/it? It seems like a huge waste of time to me. Not to mention that you cheapen the heart-felt worship of people who truly believe.
And IMHO, god(if there is one) would rather have you believe in him/her/it than go to church and not believe.
Well, I’m not an atheist first of all. Sometimes I believe some things and sometimes I don’t. That’s why I just call myself a lapsed Catholic. It sums up how I was raised and what faith I identify with, and that’s the closest description I can come up with.
Oh please. People who “truly believe” are presumably strong enough in their beliefs not to be threatened by us fence-sitters.
Well, duh, but being a true believer isn’t an alternative for some of us. If you really think that God would say “either accept 100% of it or don’t darken my door again”, well, I am very glad that I don’t believe in your God.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t see where ruadh identified him/herself as an athiest–rather, as someone who had problems with some or all RC dogma. Big difference.
That pretty much describes me, as well. Baptized as an infant, parochial school all the way in the '50’s, etc., etc. Then along came the Jesuits, who try to get their students to think. What finally did it to me was the attitude of exclusiveness, the idea that only Catholics (of the Roman persuasion) go to Heaven. Granted that went into eclipse in the '60s, but it seems to be coming back. Now, if forced to reveal my religious beliefs, I say I’m a Taoist (and watch the J.W.s depart my doorstep as if swept away like a hurrcane!).
But the indoctrination does tend to retain its hold, at least to some extent. Maybe it varies depending on the length of time the individual marinated in the mixture of holy water and sacramental wine, but it’s still there.
Or, as the Irish athiest said: “There is no God, and Mary is His mother.”
I ended up in Catholic school (8:30am - 3:00pm) and with a catholic family as my babysiter (3:00pm-6:00pm) and then ended the day getting picked up by my atheist mother. Talk about confusing!!!
I was not baptized catholic until 2nd grade when all my friends were up for first communion. I (being fully susceptible to the brainwashing of the nuns) decided I loved God, and wanted some bread on my tongue with my friends to show how much. So I got baptized in 2nd grade and became a member of the faith.
Boy the arguments my mother and I had. An 8 year old telling his mother she is going to burn for all eternity for eating meat on a Friday! My, the fun religions bring about.
Getting to a point, I had to go to church every Sunday for about 8 years (then I renounced the church). It seemed to me that most of the people there did not like or enjoy it (and sometimes even believe it). It was like a chore. Something they had always done, and so always must do. If you don’t love God, but you go to church, do you still get into heaven? Kinda like hedging your bets: “I don’t care, and don’t really even believe. But if I’m wrong at least I put a $5 in the box every week.”
I would never go to church these days (accept to dig on the architecture), but I can see how an atheist could still be a practicing Catholic. It’s just a weird (and boring) religion like that. Some people just go because it’s expected. Not because they believe and follow the bible.
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That’s all fine and good, but the OP is about an atheist who says she is a catholic. IMHO, either she doesn’t really believe she is an atheist, or she can not be a catholic. An atheist going to a catholic mass is like a skinny person going to Weight Watchers. People who are overweight would be offended, and I think real catholics would be offended to know that there is an atheist in their church.
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True, but I am talking about a self proclaimed atheist, not a fence sitter.
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Once again, I am talking about an atheist. They DO NOT accept a single %.
Just to let you know where I am coming from:
I was not raised with any specific religion. I believe in a god just as something that was here before us. Whatever questions we can not answer…that is god. Even creationists can not explain what was here before the universe and to me that is god.
I do not like organized religion, but to me the beliefs of someone who chooses to take the label of a certain religion should at the very least include the most fundamental belief of the religion they are identifying themselves with.
I agree with the OP that there is a big difference between a self-proclaimed lapsed Catholic who goes to church and an atheist who goes to church.
The lapsed Catholic presumedly believes in a God, and this God is at least somewhat as depicted in the Catholic teachings. By going to church (other than a wedding/funeral, etc.) you are saying, IMHO, that you do believe in God, and that the guy in front in the vestments is at least partially right.
The self proclaimed athiest, on the other hand, disbelieves everything that the guy in front is lecturing about. You aren’t disagreeing about the nature of God, you disagree that God even exists.
I would, but it’s against my religion 
–gigi, de-lapsed Catholic girl
Ok, again, I am a real catholic, and I am not offended. Of course, I don’t speak for all catholics, so by that token, please do not speak for me.
As a lapsed Catholic myself, let me take a stab at it…
Someone has already mentioned that “Catholic” describes a culture and upbringing as much as it describes an active religion. That’s very true.
I’m currently pagan. But I have 13 years of memories of Catholic school and going to Church every single holy day and weekend, of hymns sung by the choir, of the smell of incense, of the dozy warmth of the Church on a summer Sunday with the dusty light streaming in on a rainbow through the stained glass, of the hypnotic murmur of the priest, of being an altar boy for almost six years, of playing guitar and singing with the folk choir, of Christmas Midnight Masses and Easter Vigils, of the black shroud over the crucifix from noon on Good Friday until Easter morning, of the mysteries of the sacristy and sneaking a nip of communion wine between morning masses while we waited for the priest to come over from the rectory, of lighting candles for deceased loved ones and of the Christmas creche in the chapel of Saint Anthony, of crossing myself with holy water and genuflecting as we crossed the center aisle, of the cool feel of the marble of the sanctuary railing on my elbows as we kneeled and waited for Communion, of the darkness and quiet of the confessional as I whispered my sins so my classmates couldn’t hear, of the Stations of the Cross, of First Friday masses, of…
I think you might get the idea now. I don’t believe Word One of the Catechism anymore, but all of the above are still installed quite firmly in my mind and heart.
I don’t go to Mass anymore…I haven’t been in a Catholic church (other than for my brother’s wedding last October) for almost eight years. When I do go, I don’t take Communion, out of respect for those who do believe that it is literally the body and blood of God. Although I am firmly and emphatically pagan, I’m still Catholic, too.
jayjay
Just to follow up on the real Catholics being offended issue, I asked the two most devoted Catholics I know - my father, and an actual priest that I’m friendly with - what they thought. Specifically, I asked them if God gets pissed off by people going to Mass occasionally and taking the sacrament when they aren’t really true believers. Here are the relevant parts of their replies:
and
Now admittedly these are both liberal Catholics, the conservative types might well react differently. But my view of God, on the days I believe in God, has nothing in common with the conservatives’ view anyway.
Frankly, horhay, I’m not surprised to hear that you aren’t particularly religious. Whenever this subject comes up it always seems to be the people who don’t follow a particular religion that insist on strict doctrinal concordance for those who do. Wonder why that is?
Hmmm…Can you be an atheist and still call yourself Jewish?
My Aunt Andrea does. She not only calls herself that, she says Sabbath prayers and keeps kosher for Passover. When her grandmother died she sat Shiva. In fact, when she became my aunt, by marrying my Aunt Kerry (they recited the song of Solomon to each other) my Aunt Kerry converted (took Hebrew lessons and everything.) Being Jewish is a very important part of her sense of herself as a person. It’s her cultural identity, it’s her history, it’s her family. (Unlike Kerry’s Protestentism, obviously.)
My point is the world is full of atheists who the world, not to mention they themselves, consider to be Jewish. And who observe to one extent or another Jewish rituals for cultural reasons. Should Catholics be any different? If so, why?