Is she a Catholic or an Atheist??

In My Humble Opinion
21

horhay,

Don’t bother meeting me, you won’t like me…

Not only am I a cultural Catholic (intellectual agnostic, emotional Theist, non-christian, practicing Unitarian), I’m also a skinny person who goes to weight watchers.

The Catholic thing…I was raised that way. Although I don’t believe in much (ok, almost none) of the dogma, I still find attending mass to be soothing - kind of like Mom’s meatloaf. Besides, I can’t get unbaptised, so once a Catholic, always a Catholic. And there is a huge cultural piece to being Catholic. I don’t usually take communion anymore, since I don’t believe and personally find it hypocritical - unless I’m at, say, my Grandfathers funeral, in which case my extended family is going to be upset about my lapsed Catholisim - and the high road isn’t worth it (its a little white lie).

The Weight Watchers thing. I was getting a little heavy - still within the “normal” range, but stopped being able to zip up my size 8 pants, and needed to loose 10 -15 pounds. Its easier to loose 10 than 30, so I joined Weight Watchers, and shed the pounds. Weight Watchers encourages you to keep attending once you reach your goal weight, so there are always skinny people at the meetings. And, contrary to your opinion, most of my WW group was very supportive of me and, I believe, saw me as a healthy example of dealing with weight gain…take the steps to shed it before it becomes a problem. (Your target weight can’t be below the healthy “normal” on their charts, and you have to have a target weight 5 lbs below your current weight to join).

To answer the OP, she is both. Catholisim is cultural as much as a belief. Atheism isn’t a religion.

22

OK, so she’s a catholic atheist. What does that mean come judgment day? Is she automatically going to hell because she renounced god? Or does she have a chance to get into to heaven because she went through the motions of a believer?
Again, I am not a religious person. This idea of not believing in god but still being a catholic is confusing to me. I can understand it more with Judaism because that is a race as well as a religion, correct?
Several of you have mentioned that my friend is catholic because she is baptized. I have a question about that. If she does not believe in god, why should she think that her baptism meant anything? And if she doesn’t think that it meant anything why would she be bound to the catholic religion by it?
Danger- I like most people regardless of their beliefs. After all, I am friends with this girl that the OP is about. Please don’t tell me that I will not like you. I am a very kind and friendly person. Sorry about the weight watcher thing…I needed an example, but I guess I should have done a little more research before I posted.

23

Where is she going? I don’t know - don’t know the mind of my own God, much less her’s. Don’t know if she believes in an afterlife. Don’t know if it makes any difference or if its any of my business.

I’m not sure on Catholic dogma, but IIRC she has plenty of time to make it to heaven, and the baptism should get her into purgatory, letting her repent her lack of belief. But I could be wrong.

(And if I discover myself in purgatory, I’ll revisit the whole “Jesus, son of God” thing.)

24

No. Not even if you believe there’s such a thing as race. And anyway you could make the same point about the Irish, Italians, Spanish, Portuguese, etc …

25

I’d just like to mention that ruadh’s dad and priest friend seem pretty cool re Catholicism. :smiley:

Anyway, I can understand where horhay’s friend is coming from, because traditions really do die hard. That’s probably why I’m not entirely lapsed yet. (I consider myself a progressive Catholic, although on bad days there’s always that twinge of “what if the conservatives are right?”) That’s probably also why my dad, who never goes to church regularly and is hard-pressed to go even on Easter, liked visiting Québec because (in his words) it’s “Catholic country”…

26

Dangerosa:

Perfect spot for a Simpson emtry:

Dalovin’ Dj

27

Thanks for the posts y’all.
I guess that for me it comes down to practice what you preach. It doesn’t seem right for her to say she is an atheist, but then take communion when she is in a church. I don’t even take communion and I believe in god. To me the beliefs are more important than the cultural aspects, but I can see why others feel differently.
But, if the beliefs don’t matter, I guess she should just start going to Jewish synagogue and participating in their rituals too. Why not cover all the bases? She could prey to Mecca everyday, and meditate for 3 hours before she goes to bed too. Think about how many days she would get off of work for religious holidays!! :slight_smile: And, if in the end she finds out there is no god she can say, “well I never fell for that one…I was an atheist.”

28

Except that she was brought up Catholic, and that’s the community with which she identifies. She’s an atheist, so I think we can assume this is less about religion than culture and self-identity, as many of the participants in this thread have been saying.

29

LUX–True, but she practices the rituals of the church. That is more than self-identity, that is actively participating. I understand since I started this thread how she can say she is a catholic, but I still don’t understand how she can practice the rituals of the church. I don’t think a person-raised atheist who converted to catholicism would even identify with atheist culture, and they most definitely would not partake in atheist practices.
A football player from the Dallas Cowboys who gets traded to the Philadelphia Eagles is not going to continue to run plays from the Cowboys playbook even though at one time he may have strongly identified and felt loyalty to the Dallas team.

30

But participating is giving her some level of comfort and adding something to her life - or she wouldn’t participate.

I don’t believe in Santa Claus, but I find it enjoyable to participate in the myth at Christmastime. I give gifts “from Santa,” I get gifts “from Santa.”

Here in Minnesota at Christmastime alot of the Norweigians (or maybe its the Swedes) cook lutefisk. I’ve never met anyone who could stand the stuff, but it remains on the table.

And there isn’t an equivalent “atheist culture” to join. Atheist don’t get together and have potlucks (usually, there are exceptions), picnics, or get together for Habitat for Humanity.

There are a lot of reasons to participate in a religion other than to worship God. For instance, she may participate to make her elderly grandmother happy, or because sitting in church gives her a chance to meditate on life for an hour each week, or because she loves the smell of incense and the taste of communion wafers, or because her friends are all there.

Also, it doesn’t sound like your friend is really actively Catholic. She doesn’t go to church on her own, she just goes to the weddings she is invited to. Since she knows the prayers, she mumbles along - maybe because its the polite thing to do, maybe because its hard not to when you’ve spent much of your life doing this. She takes communion - perhaps out of habit, perhaps because she doesn’t want to draw attention to her lapsed status.

I’ve been to a Wiccan wedding or two, and even though I don’t buy that, I repeated the prayers where asked, I participated in the shared Chalice, sang and moved appropriately for the event. To do otherwise might have looked like I wasn’t interested in the bride and groom having a long and happy life together, instead of looking like I just didn’t think that blessing was doing any good.

For an atheist, participating in someone else’s rituals is often done from politeness. After all, you don’t think anyone is around to strike you down with a lightning bolt.

31

Um, you can’t call yourself a Catholic and an atheist at the same time. That’s like calling yourself a vegetarian and a coinsurer of Hasenpfeffer; it just doesn’t work. And if the priest knew, I’m confident he would refuse to give her the Eucharist.

32

Horhay - I think your friend is hypocritical. If it were my friend, I would probably be wondering the same things you are. But, if she told me to MYOB, I suppose I’d respect that too.

This Catholic Encyclopedia has a few unpleasant things to say about people who leave the faith. I’d be interested if any Catholics here would comment on this reference.

I was raised as a protestant, but now am atheist. When I have been invited to church, I will politely participate to the extent I feel comfortable (Hey - this atheist even wore a yarmulke once!). I do not feel comfortable if others think that I’m sincere, however. I definitely will not participate in communion because I feel it is disrespectful to those who do (despite their invitation). I feel most comfortable if people know I’m just visiting.

IMHO, the most important person to be true to is yourself.

BTW, I received an “emergency baptism” by a Catholic nun in a Catholic hospital (my parents were/are not Catholic) - I was a very ill baby. Does that make me Catholic?

33

Nah. Fr. Feeney was excommunicated around 1950 for insisting that only Catholics are going to Heaven. “Outside the Church there is no Salvation” means that Jesus acts through the Church to bring salvation to all and that without the Church (as the Body of Christ) there is no salvation. (I am not claiming that that interpretation has always held true or that there are no other Catholics who feel as Feeney did, but it is not Church doctrine.)

That work is the Encyclopedia written between 1907 and 1919 and reflects the attitudes of the Church “under siege” that permeated much Catholic thought beginning in 1517.

On technical points, it would still be held true. Apostasy has always been held to be a terrible sin; in the earliest days of the Church, Penance/Confession was generally reserved for apostasy, adultery, and murder.

However, the Church recognizes that Faith is a gift that may be lost. Apostasy is generally conceived in terms of someone who knows/believes that the teachings of the Church are True, and rejects them anyway. A person who “loses their faith” (from the perspective of the Church) is not automatically condemned. While the Church holds that they are at great risk, the Church never presumes to say who God will or will not save.